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Old 01-01-2013, 04:47 PM   #76
ricardinho
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Default Re: Pacquiao > Chavez

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Old 01-01-2013, 04:52 PM   #77
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Default Re: Pacquiao > Chavez

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Originally Posted by Bald_Toad View Post
marquez would have done a number on the 35 year old chavez that oscar fought. someone would stop the fight for sure.
yeah I think so too, marquez has a chance to beat him
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:55 PM   #78
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Default Re: Pacquiao > Chavez

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Originally Posted by Doc View Post
JMM " manny hates body shots, i can hear him grunt whenver I hit him there, he hates it"


JCC by Brutal TKO he would cut PACQUIAO into a corner and unleash on his body or into the ropes, Pac is a mid range shooter, has no inside game, JCC would tear him up
Correct!
Marquez after KO'ing Pacquiao noted his body work against Pacquiao set up his power shots, thus the knockdowns.

Chavez is by far and overall better fighter than Pacquiao is. There were so many dimensions to Chavez both offensively and defensively.

Head to head is even worse for Pacquiao. So many of Pacquiao's opponents have been bothered with facing Pacquiao's southpaw stance. Southpaws never bothered Chavez. Chavez threw the straight right as good as anyone in boxing which is the weapon of choice vs southpaws.

Whenever Marquez drove the straight right to Pacquiao's face, Pacquiao retreated raising both his arms to his face, that position would buy him nothing but a pounding to the body by JCC!

Nacho Beristain noted this before the 4th fight when asked how Marquez would fare if Pacquiao used his footspeed to stay close and not give Marquez the opportunity to land the straight right as he was coming in.
Nacho said, "Marquez would do well, Pacquiao is'nt an inside fighter. Pacquiao's power comes from this thrusts from the outside going in, but once inside, he needs to reset himself by stepping back again and finding distance to throw power. Thats where Juan has worked him before, while Pacquiao was trying to find that room for himself."


Can you imagine what Julio Cesar Chavez, the master at cutting a ring off would do finding Pacquiao on the inside, hands up, body exposed, trying to get out to reset???????



Obviously the ability to adjust to circumstances favor Chavez who can fight at any rhythm and beat, and is comfortable both chasing and being chased. The man is was just an overall better fighter than Manny Pacquiao and it does'nt take a student of the game to realize that.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:58 PM   #79
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Default Re: Pacquiao > Chavez

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Correct!
Marquez after KO'ing Pacquiao noted his body work against Pacquiao set up his power shots, thus the knockdowns.

Chavez is by far and overall better fighter than Pacquiao is. There were so many dimensions to Chavez both offensively and defensively.

Head to head is even worse for Pacquiao. So many of Pacquiao's opponents have been bothered with facing Pacquiao's southpaw stance. Southpaws never bothered Chavez. Chavez threw the straight right as good as anyone in boxing which is the weapon of choice vs southpaws.

Whenever Marquez drove the straight right to Pacquiao's face, Pacquiao retreated raising both his arms to his face, that position would buy him nothing but a pounding to the body by JCC!

Nacho Beristain noted this before the 4th fight when asked how Marquez would fare if Pacquiao used his footspeed to stay close and not give Marquez the opportunity to land the straight right as he was coming in.
Nacho said, "Marquez would do well, Pacquiao is'nt an inside fighter. Pacquiao's power comes from this thrusts from the outside going in, but once inside, he needs to reset himself by stepping back again and finding distance to throw power. Thats where Juan has worked him before, while Pacquiao was trying to find that room for himself."


Can you imagine what Julio Cesar Chavez, the master at cutting a ring off would do finding Pacquiao on the inside, hands up, body exposed, trying to get out to reset???????



Obviously the ability to adjust to circumstances favor Chavez who can fight at any rhythm and beat, and is comfortable both chasing and being chased. The man is was just an overall better fighter than Manny Pacquiao and it does'nt take a student of the game to realize that.
Divac that was a very solid deconstruction of Pac and breakdown of Chavez...it would be a long night for pac
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:26 PM   #80
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Default Re: Pacquiao > Chavez

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Originally Posted by Bald_Toad View Post
marquez would have done a number on the 35 year old chavez that oscar fought. someone would stop the fight for sure.
Styles make fights, I dont think you're correct noting that.
That DLH fight was the last time JCC got himself in fairly good shape.
That weight jump to Welter however was like Marquez weight jump to fight Mayweather.
The 4 lbs of mass Chavez added to his frame for DLH was not lean mass as Marquez mass vs Mayweather was not.

The problem for Chavez in his welterweight fight with DLH is having his older legs trying to be quick and springy enough to get inside of DLH's reach, and then have the stamina to stay on the inside working carrying the extra weight he was.
Add to that, Chavez was punching at a middleweight, HBO unofficially weighed DLH at 161 lbs the night of the fight.

10 years after facing Chavez at Welterweight weighing 161 lbs as a welterweight, DLH climbs the ring against Pacquiao weighing only 147 lbs.

Can you imagine what the same 36 year old Chavez would have done to that version of DLH?????

Anyways, older fighters have a difficult time dealing with speed, and when its compounded by having to deal with height and reach along with the speed, thats when it gets extremely difficult for an older fighter to cope.

Thats what Chavez had to cope against DLH at welter. Factors that would not enter into the equation for Chavez against a 39 year old Marquez we just witnessed against Pacquiao.

Styles make fights people, I would'nt expect this 39 year old version of Marquez to deal with the height, reach, quickness, and speed advantage of the DLH that fought Chavez, but I'd would bet he'd tear apart and dismantle a 10 year older version of DLH that entered the ring weighing a drained and meekly 147 lbs against Manny Pacquiao!!!!



Read this post again Pactards and let the facts as they stand sink in to the brain!

You see? Now you know that beating a weight drained DLH at 147 lbs does'nt carry the merits of someone of Pacquiao's stature possibly having done it 10 years earlier at DLH welterweight prime!
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:36 PM   #81
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Default Re: Pacquiao > Chavez

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Originally Posted by ricardinho View Post
Divac that was a very solid deconstruction of Pac and breakdown of Chavez...it would be a long night for pac
Its elementary level thinking as far as style matchups are concerned.
Only a pactard would try to convince themselves Pacquiao stood a chance vs the greatest Mexican fighter of them all!
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:36 PM   #82
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Default Re: Pacquiao > Chavez

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Originally Posted by Drew101 View Post
Jimmy McLarnin. Baby Face only won one world championship at welterweight but went from fly to welter during his career and defeated champions in pretty much every division along the way.

I actually think Manny vs McLarnin would be an interesting topic to discuss.

so you a boxing historian and you know more than boxrec?

because as boxrec does know, jimmy mc larnin had like his first 20 fights listed without weight. meaning how could you know that he started at lightweight?

his first bout, where there is a official weight was against teddy silva and he weight 123 pounds, that sounds more a super bantamweight to me, which would mean he climbed 5 divisions up to welterweight and between 10 and 5 there is a huge difference I guess, so just get fu$%&k outa here....
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:42 PM   #83
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Default Re: Pacquiao > Chavez

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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Don't forget Duran.. started at bantamweight and finished at Super Middleweight.

yeah, you guys are real mathematic geniuses from bantam to sm it's 9 divisions, not 10.

manny started at 106 pounds, thats light flyweight.

from light flyweight up to light middleweight is 10 divisions jump. so stop coming at me with 5 or 9 divisions jumps when you can't name me someone who did 10!!!
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:45 PM   #84
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Default Re: Pacquiao > Chavez

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Originally Posted by Scar View Post
Unlike Chavez Sr., Pacquiao didn't need to fight over 80 cabbies and kindergarten dropouts nor did he need controversies every time he stepped up. First eight division world champion, lineal champion in four weight classes, P4P#1 for nearly 5 years straight, greatest fighter of this era and 3 times fighter of the year. Pacquiao makes Chavez Sr. look like a fraud in comparison.

Please note that this post isn't exactly directed at a retarded trolling cabbie like you, it's to other cabbies that would dare compare Sr. to Pacquiao in achievements.

finaly somebody gets it.

but like I said, I am not all about legacy, I just say Manny beats Chavez in a fight, because Manny is the better Boxer, maybe not in terms of fundamentales, also he is close, but in terms of simply being physicly much more imposing.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:48 PM   #85
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Default Re: Pacquiao > Chavez

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Clottey has mental issues

Shane was shot by then as seen in hisMora fight. manny only made the Shane fight once he had confirmation Shane was shot from his Mora performance. With that in mind Shane managed to make manny look awful.

Bradley gave manny one of his hardest fights

clottey was a tough man. strong and durable, cant take away that. he gave cotto and marga hell.

shane old or not, was still a tough man, marga bout says it all.

bradley lost like 10 out of 12 rounds to manny.

so good bye
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:10 PM   #86
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Default Re: Pacquiao > Chavez

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Originally Posted by divac View Post


Styles make fights, I dont think you're correct noting that.


Styles make fights people, I would'nt expect this 39 year old version of Marquez to deal with the height, reach, quickness, and speed advantage of the DLH that fought Chavez, but I'd would bet he'd tear apart and dismantle a 10 year older version of DLH that entered the ring weighing a drained and meekly 147 lbs against Manny Pacquiao!!!!
uhmm...I think he meant marquez to chavez sr

which I also agreed, marquez would beat chavez
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:12 PM   #87
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Default Re: Pacquiao > Chavez

This is where people dont understand about the suspicious way Pacquiao went about his rise in weight that leads me and many to suspect it was not a natural evolution into the weights.

At 21 years of age, a male has been formed into out of a boy and into a full male body. You're a grown male at 21 years old.

Roberto Duran was a lighweight at 21 years of age.
Manny Pacquiao at 21 years old was a flyweight.

Besides Pacquiao, when has a 21 year old flyweight ever passed nearly as many weight divsions as Pacquiao????????????????????


Who gives a rats ass that Duran once fought at 118 lbs, he was ****ing 16 years old at the time, not yet a full male developed body.

Pacquiao at 21 years old, his body developed was weighing as low as 111 lbs, at that age Duran weighed 135 lbs!

There's a huge difference in the weight divisions they both scaled after both had developed and matured.

The same goes with Mayweather, he was a teenager when he was an amatuer fighting at the lower weights. At 21 years old, Mayweather was fighting at 130/135. Big difference to Pacquiao at 111/116 lbs!
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:15 PM   #88
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Default Re: Pacquiao > Chavez

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Originally Posted by Chempasillo View Post
clottey was a tough man. strong and durable, cant take away that. he gave cotto and marga hell.

shane old or not, was still a tough man, marga bout says it all.

bradley lost like 10 out of 12 rounds to manny.

so good bye
Does that mean you are going to sleep like PacMan?

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Old 01-01-2013, 06:45 PM   #89
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Default Re: Pacquiao > Chavez

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Originally Posted by Chempasillo View Post
he climbed 10 divisions, name me 1 ****er who did that!!!!

Georges Carpentier fought in every class from flyweight to heavyweight, with the current division weight class that means 15 weigth class

Roberto Duran start at bantamweight and finish his carreer at super middleweight, that means 10 weight class
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:48 PM   #90
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Default Re: Pacquiao > Chavez

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Originally Posted by divac View Post
This is where people dont understand about the suspicious way Pacquiao went about his rise in weight that leads me and many to suspect it was not a natural evolution into the weights.

At 21 years of age, a male has been formed into out of a boy and into a full male body. You're a grown male at 21 years old.

Roberto Duran was a lighweight at 21 years of age.
Manny Pacquiao at 21 years old was a flyweight.

Besides Pacquiao, when has a 21 year old flyweight ever passed nearly as many weight divsions as Pacquiao????????????????????


Who gives a rats ass that Duran once fought at 118 lbs, he was ****ing 16 years old at the time, not yet a full male developed body.

Pacquiao at 21 years old, his body developed was weighing as low as 111 lbs, at that age Duran weighed 135 lbs!

There's a huge difference in the weight divisions they both scaled after both had developed and matured.

The same goes with Mayweather, he was a teenager when he was an amatuer fighting at the lower weights. At 21 years old, Mayweather was fighting at 130/135. Big difference to Pacquiao at 111/116 lbs!

manny although being 17 years old weight ****ing 106 pounds and was a damn midget standing 5'5-5'6.

floyd weight 106 pounds during his amateur years when he was 16. floyd entered pro boxing at 19 years or beginning of 20. he was tall and weight 131 pounds.

so if it was so easy to jump 10 divisions, why is manny the only one?

manny standing 5'6 fought guys standing 5'11 (5 inches difference)
floyd stands 5'8 and could have faced guys (if he had had the balls of pac, because pac fought guys 5 inches taller and floyd avoided them) who stand 6'2. paul williams, kelly pavlik. add that floyd is physicly not only taller but naturaly bigger, than you see how great it is what manny did against bigger oppoents and overall achievemants in his career. but you won't realise, because (riods etc.) you are a hater. because if riods would make you p4p king for so many years and make you jump 10 divisions destroying everybody on his path, than other boxers who took it also would be unbetable and a lot of boxers did riods but achieved shit, what just means that even if you take something illegal, you still have to be a special talent to go all the way up in p4p ranks and overall boxing stardom. look at tour de france, everybody 95 % were jiucing and taking shit, the only reason lance won so many time, was he was just the better cyclist, because everybody was taking something, so were is the big disadvantage to the others?
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