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Old 01-02-2013, 12:45 PM   #106
AnthonyW
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Default Re: Am I the only one who thinks Guerrero has a good chance?

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Originally Posted by RingKing View Post
Ok, I can agree there, which is what I think I have been trying to say. Anyhow, I think if FMJ keeps Guerrero on the outside, he is in for a world of hurt. If Guerrero, can manage to get on the inside and stay there, his chances of making it interesting increase slightly.
Check Bogo's thread out, points out some interesting tactics Guerrero could employ, but probably isn't good enough to.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:49 PM   #107
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Default Re: Am I the only one who thinks Guerrero has a good chance?

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I wouldn't say you have to be able to throw great combinations on the inside to be classed as a great inside boxer. An example, Rios, would you consider him a great inside boxer? No doubt he has very good offense on the inside, finds power and leverage with short punches, but can he unlock a good defense? Nope, doesn't seem that way. I'd class Abril as a very good defensive boxer on the inside, whereas I'd class Rios a very good offensive inside boxer, against certain styles.

When it comes to Mayweather, he is a great defensive inside boxer, great at making it awkward and hard to land cleanly on. Whereas his offense from that position is very good simply based on the openings he creates and leaves himself to land. His output isn't out of this world on the inside, but his output overall has dropped over the years. His uppercut/straight right to the stomach/sternum is one of the best shots in boxing, it's hard to see from outside the ring, never mind in it.

Bouts where he has been impressive. Recently Cotto. A few years back, Hatton. Very impressive against Hatton.
No, I would not say Rios is a great offensive inside fighter. He's more of a brawler with decent to good inside skills. I think his method is to throw and throw and throw some more until the other guy falls down. He has no game plan outside of what I have mentioned. At least I don't see him setting traps to create other openings.

Fighters who I think are great/superior inside fighters?
JCC
Jose Luis Castillo
James Toney
Felix Trinidad
Bernard Hopkins - when he wants to
Barrera - when he wants to
Terry Norris - maybe would classify him as good to very good
Meldrick Taylor - although he lacked world class power
Roberto Duran
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:50 PM   #108
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Default Re: Am I the only one who thinks Guerrero has a good chance?

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I may very well be wrong about FMJ's inside game, but on the outside? So far, he's proven to be the best of his generation.
Hatton, N'Dou, Corely, Cotto all showed great infighting from Floyd. He's a defensive infighter, not an offensive one. There are plenty greater, but it's a dying art, and Guerrero is not one to carry that torch into the future by surpassing Floyd's skills.

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Check Bogo's thread out, points out some interesting tactics Guerrero could employ, but probably isn't good enough to.
You rang?

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Great way of putting it; a set of tools he likely isn't able to put together in good enough harmony.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:51 PM   #109
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Default Re: Am I the only one who thinks Guerrero has a good chance?

you mean Fernando or Robert? both have good chances
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:52 PM   #110
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Default Re: Am I the only one who thinks Guerrero has a good chance?

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Hatton, N'Dou, Corely, Cotto all showed great infighting from Floyd.
Ok, I'll check out the Hatton and Cotto fight again and see if I missed something.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:53 PM   #111
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Default Re: Am I the only one who thinks Guerrero has a good chance?

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Check Bogo's thread out, points out some interesting tactics Guerrero could employ, but probably isn't good enough to.
sounds interesting. link?
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:55 PM   #112
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Default Re: Am I the only one who thinks Guerrero has a good chance?

Just posted it in the previous post.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:00 PM   #113
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Default Re: Am I the only one who thinks Guerrero has a good chance?

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No, I would not say Rios is a great offensive inside fighter. He's more of a brawler with decent to good inside skills. I think his method is to throw and throw and throw some more until the other guy falls down. He has no game plan outside of what I have mentioned. At least I don't see him setting traps to create other openings.

Fighters who I think are great/superior inside fighters?
JCC
Jose Luis Castillo
James Toney
Felix Trinidad
Bernard Hopkins - when he wants to
Barrera - when he wants to
Terry Norris - maybe would classify him as good to very good
Meldrick Taylor - although he lacked world class power
Roberto Duran
Which is honestly why I see Rios as limited, and would pick a few at 140lbs to beat him.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:00 PM   #114
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Default Re: Am I the only one who thinks Guerrero has a good chance?

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Hatton, N'Dou, Corely, Cotto all showed great infighting from Floyd. He's a defensive infighter, not an offensive one. There are plenty greater, but it's a dying art, and Guerrero is not one to carry that torch into the future by surpassing Floyd's skills.



You rang?

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Great way of putting it; a set of tools he likely isn't able to put together in good enough harmony.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:07 PM   #115
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Default Re: Am I the only one who thinks Guerrero has a good chance?

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From what I can recall, FMJ beat all those guys by boxing and setting the pace from the outside. Not by beating those guys on the inside for the majority of all 12 rounds. He's more of a defensive fighter who picks apart his opponent from the outside. Whatever the case may be, you may think of him as a superior inside fighter but I don't. An excellent defensive inside fighter? Yes, no argument there. A superior offensive inside fighter? Nope, at least in my opinion.

No you will never see floyd set a pattern, he will fight on the inside, then he may move to the pocket, then switch to the outside, or use the shoulder roll. this is why he is so hard to fight, because you never know how he going to use is defense and offense .

those fight I mention you need to go back and look at those fights , he busted Zab, Gatti, Chavez , Bruselse to the body to the point they had to choice but to follow floyd peace.

Not a superior inside fighter ? then ask yourself, why come these so called excellent inside pressure fighters fall so short fighting floyd? Come do you really think floyd runs and uses the shoulder roll the whole time?
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:27 PM   #116
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Default Re: Am I the only one who thinks Guerrero has a good chance?

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No you will never see floyd set a pattern, he will fight on the inside, then he may move to the pocket, then switch to the outside, or use the shoulder roll. this is why he is so hard to fight, because you never know how he going to use is defense and offense .

those fight I mention you need to go back and look at those fights , he busted Zab, Gatti, Chavez , Bruselse to the body to the point they had to choice but to follow floyd peace.

Not a superior inside fighter ? then ask yourself, why come these so called excellent inside pressure fighters fall so short fighting floyd? Come do you really think floyd runs and uses the shoulder roll the whole time?
What excellent inside pressure fighters has he fought besides Castillo? Castillo, who in my opinion and a lot of other people (some HBO personnel included), beat FMJ. None of the other guys you mentioned come close to being excellent inside fighters. And please, don't mention Hatton as an excellent inside fighter. Baldomir? Not an excellent pressure fighter, but a plodding, feather fisted fighter.

Come on, man. I've given FMJ credit for being a superior outside fighter who has been able to beat other fighters by fighting his fight. But don't try and tell me he has fought excellent pressure fighters because he hasn't.

And I never said this, "Come do you really think floyd runs and uses the shoulder roll the whole time?"

Last edited by RingKing; 01-02-2013 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:31 PM   #117
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Default Re: Am I the only one who thinks Guerrero has a good chance?

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What excellent inside pressure fighters has he fought besides Castillo? Castillo, who in my opinion and a lot of other people (some HBO personnel included), beat FMJ. None of the other guys you mentioned come close to being excellent inside fighters. And please, don't mention Hatton as an excellent inside fighter. Baldomir? Not an excellent pressure fighter, but a plodding, feather fisted fighter.

Come on, man. I've given FMJ credit for being a superior outside fighter who has been able to beat other fighters by fighting his fight. But don't try and tell me he has fought excellent pressure fighters because he hasn't.
Can I ask why not?
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:37 PM   #118
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Default Re: Am I the only one who thinks Guerrero has a good chance?

There's a difference between ATG pressure fighters and simply excellent ones. Hatton, Cotto, are very good pressure fighters. But Duran, Chavez, Toney, etc. display it on a much more dynamic level. Floyd may not be at that utmost tier, but he doesn't have to be in this era. There aren't that many fighters in the last decade that I'd say could beat Floyd if you put the two in a 10X10 ring. There's a reason for that, and it's Floyd's skill-level up close.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:57 PM   #119
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Default Re: Am I the only one who thinks Guerrero has a good chance?

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What excellent inside pressure fighters has he fought besides Castillo? Castillo, who in my opinion and a lot of other people (some HBO personnel included), beat FMJ. None of the other guys you mentioned come close to being excellent inside fighters. And please, don't mention Hatton as an excellent inside fighter. Baldomir? Not an excellent pressure fighter, but a plodding, feather fisted fighter.

Come on, man. I've given FMJ credit for being a superior outside fighter who has been able to beat other fighters by fighting his fight. But don't try and tell me he has fought excellent pressure fighters because he hasn't.
Floyd first fight with Castillio was close and floyd first time at 135 in which Castillo came in close to 147 then 135, even then with floyd hurt shoulder, floyd was able to hold his own on the inside with Castillo. If you don't give any of the fighter I mention credit for being great or even good inside fighters, I would like to hear your opinion on who is a good inside fighter today? Because that art appears to be lost on most fighters today.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:03 PM   #120
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Default Re: Am I the only one who thinks Guerrero has a good chance?

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Floyd first fight with Castillio was close and floyd first time at 135 in which Castillo came in close to 147 then 135, even then with floyd hurt shoulder, floyd was able to hold his own on the inside with Castillo. If you don't give any of the fighter I mention credit for being great or even good inside fighters, I would like to hear your opinion on who is a good inside fighter today? Because that art appears to be lost on most fighters today.
You don't have to give Floyd any injury excuses. Who cares if the crowd or HBO personnel thought Floyd lost. The judges didn't and neither did diehard boxing fans who know how to score fights. Castillo basically held and threw low blows. When you watch the fight, Floyd clearly won on accuracy. He outboxed Castillo. Castillo tried his best to rough Floyd up and that's all he did-rough Floyd up. Castillo's punches weren't landing like he won the fight. The rematch proved that Floyd could do it again more convincingly, and he did. If the man doesn't think Floyd is good on the inside and has not fought any good pressure fighters, let him be. That's just a clueless individual.
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