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Old 01-02-2013, 05:10 PM   #1
iceferg
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Default Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhamed Ali
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Ezzard Charles
8. George Foreman
9. Joe Fraizer
10. Larry Holmes
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:14 PM   #2
Seamus
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

He was trolling.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:22 PM   #3
dinovelvet
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

All deserving of ATG status.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

I add Lewis and Wlad, remove Foreman and Frazier, drop Ali to 10.
Before you all get crazy...Every time Ali jabbed, his right hand flared out. A slightly better than medium fighter like Norton took advantaqe of that by jabbing every time Ali jabbed. So would Holmes, Wlad, Lewis, even 2nd Foreman. Ali didn't know how to get inside and didn't know how to fight once somebody made him get there.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:51 PM   #5
KCD
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

I'm a massive Dempsey fan....but....why the **** is he so high?
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:41 PM   #6
iceferg
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

Personally I think you have to judge it by era, the circumstances were just too different. People were naturally smaller 70-100 years ago because they ate less and it is unfair to judge someone against someone else who has had a naturally better diet since day 1, ironically, I think they had more heart just a way of the times,

Anyway, for the really old era I'd have
1. Joe Louis
2. Marciano
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Gene Tuney
5. Archie Moore
6. Jersey Joe Walcott
7. Jack Johnson
8. Ezzard Charles
9. Jess Wilard
10. Bob Fitzsimmons

Semi-modern era
1. Muhamed Ali
2. Larry Holmes (depends what you would class him as)
3. Joe Fraizer
4. George Foreman (same as Holmes)
5. Ken Norton
6. Sonny Liston
7. Floyd Patterson
8. Earnie Shavers
9. Bob Foster (including LHW resume)
10. Jerry Quarry

Modern
1. Lennox Lewis
2. Mike Tyson
3. Evander Holyfield
4. Riddick Bowe
5. Vitali Klitschko
6. Wladimir Klitschko
7. David Tua
8. Michael Moorer
9. Chris Byrd
10. Frank Bruno (although many others could take the place)
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:48 PM   #7
Nightcrawler
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
He was trolling.
you joke but I honestly think that's kind of what he was doing. he sometimes seemed to take on ridiculous and indefensable positions just to see what people might list in response. his and Teddy Atlas's list book is filled with such nonsense. Rip bert but this list blows
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:50 PM   #8
LittleRed
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

What's crazy is that's a p4p list not just heavyweight.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

Its a list of his favorites obviously.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:23 PM   #10
burt bienstock
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCD View Post
I'm a massive Dempsey fan....but....why the **** is he so high?
Because at his best he was a beast, plain and simply ! If not for the "long count " fight in which Dempsey had Tunney down and hurt for 14-17 seconds,allowing for Tunney to clear his fogged brain ,Dempsey old and rusty , would have been again heavyweight champion.
And his stock would have soared...Purely on a H2H basis ,no HWT was more
endowed with a combination of speed, power and toughness in one package...
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:56 PM   #11
iceferg
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

I really rate Dempsey highly, and dwspite the lack of nutrition etc. old heavyweights had, I'd still fancey guys like Demsey to give a very good display of himself even against today's fighters.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:22 PM   #12
Seamus
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
no HWT was more
endowed with a package...
the crux of the Dempsey legacy...
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:23 PM   #13
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold View Post
I add Lewis and Wlad, remove Foreman and Frazier, drop Ali to 10.
Before you all get crazy...Every time Ali jabbed, his right hand flared out. A slightly better than medium fighter like Norton took advantaqe of that by jabbing every time Ali jabbed. So would Holmes, Wlad, Lewis, even 2nd Foreman. Ali didn't know how to get inside and didn't know how to fight once somebody made him get there.
... and 50 other opponents couldn't take advantage of that
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:25 PM   #14
rusak
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

Quote:
Originally Posted by iceferg View Post
1. Joe Louis
2. Muhamed Ali
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Ezzard Charles
8. George Foreman
9. Joe Fraizer
10. Larry Holmes
List is garbage. I don't really do these lists but still.

Dempsey isn't even top 30 let alone top 3.

Gene Tunney wouldn't beat Roy Jones. Indeed, he'd get the Richard Hall treatment.

Foreman is nowhere near top 10. Or top 20. I could keep going.

Does Charles really have the wins to be top 10 at heavyweight?

Frazier, frankly, is too one-dimensional and undersized to be top 10. I think he gets "Foreman-d" by quite a few big punchers who can push him around.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:43 PM   #15
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

Not a big fan of these lists myself but its always interesting to read them. I don't think Ezzard Charles should be in the top ten and the same can be said for Frazier and Johnson. Foreman deserves to be in the top ten because he would have stood a fantastic chance against any heavyweight in history.
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