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Old 01-03-2013, 01:12 PM   #31
McGrain
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

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Originally Posted by iceferg View Post
I just think based on his wins etc. KO'd Rahman, Moorer himself, Ruiz, Maskaev. Gave Lewis a decent fight. Lost to Byrd in all fairness but I still think that there is a little more depth on his resume.
Byrd has Holyfield, Vitali, Tua, Purrity, Cooper, Oquendo, McCline, Williamson...switch 'em! Switch 'em man!
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:58 PM   #32
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

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Byrd has Holyfield, Vitali, Tua, Purrity, Cooper, Oquendo, McCline, Williamson...switch 'em! Switch 'em man!
None of these were really impressive wins. Holyfield was shot and started getting beaten by everyone, Byrd beat Vitali and deserves a lot of cred fot it but in all honesty he was getting well beaten at the time and won because of an injury.
Byrd's win over Tua is good yes, he deserve credit for that but it was close and could be compared to young's win over foreman (not saying there is that gulf in class just that styles make fights.

I just think the way Byrd was destroyed by Wlad and the way Tua stuck in with Lewis and also the way Byrd was destroyed by Icke but the way Tua stuck in there gives him a slight edge. It's very close though and I understand other opinions.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:06 PM   #33
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

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I add Lewis and Wlad, remove Foreman and Frazier, drop Ali to 10.
Before you all get crazy...Every time Ali jabbed, his right hand flared out. A slightly better than medium fighter like Norton took advantaqe of that by jabbing every time Ali jabbed. So would Holmes, Wlad, Lewis, even 2nd Foreman. Ali didn't know how to get inside and didn't know how to fight once somebody made him get there.
This guy makes Bert look evenkeel.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:02 PM   #34
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

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None of these were really impressive wins. Holyfield was shot and started getting beaten by everyone, Byrd beat Vitali and deserves a lot of cred fot it but in all honesty he was getting well beaten at the time and won because of an injury.
Right. But they're not less impressive than the wins you listed for Tua, are they? In fact, they're more impressive.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:32 PM   #35
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

Holyfield was an old man with a bum ticker when Byrd beat him ffs. Tua never had any real skill, he was just thought to try knock guys out and was overweight since he fought Lennox. He looked miserable against Wlad and Golota walked him from pillar to post for 12 rounds without a jab. He was useless.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:37 PM   #36
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

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Holyfield was an old man with a bum ticker when Byrd beat him ffs. Tua never had any real skill, he was just thought to try knock guys out and was overweight since he fought Lennox. He looked miserable against Wlad and Golota walked him from pillar to post for 12 rounds without a jab. He was useless.

Who wasn't useless apart from Joe Louis and Rocky according to you?


Byrd was as slick as they come at heavy and Tua had legit one punch knockout power, that was actually proven against heavyweights.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:47 PM   #37
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

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Right. But they're not less impressive than the wins you listed for Tua, are they? In fact, they're more impressive.
No they're much less impressive. Tua KO'd Ruiz, he went on to become a champion, KO'd Rahman who went on to become undisputed champion, KO'd Moorer who was a highly regarded champion KO'd Maskaev who went on to become a champion.

Jameel Mcline lost almost every time he stepped up in opposition, Byrd barely beat him and 4 months later McLine was well beaten by Calvin Brock, I didn't even include Oquendo because I didn't rate it as one of his highest wins but Tua stopped him when he was unbeaten, DaVaryl Williamson again lost pretty much everytime he stepped up in quality Ross Purrity had 12 losses going in to the Byrd fight and had lost 2 in a row going into it, very good fighter yes but mainly a gatekeeper to test prospects (to make it clear he lost to a 12 bout Hasim Rahman) so how he's a better win I don't know.

Frankly I think you're pretty deluded or uneducated on the sport if you think those wins are better than Tua's.

Let's face it as well, as good as the win over Vitali was, it was down to a freak accident, if Lewis got an injury like that Tua might have beaten him.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:54 PM   #38
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

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Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post
you joke but I honestly think that's kind of what he was doing. he sometimes seemed to take on ridiculous and indefensable positions just to see what people might list in response. his and Teddy Atlas's list book is filled with such nonsense. Rip bert but this list blows
Sugar was a humourist historian. Atlas just has a screw loose.

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What's crazy is that's a p4p list not just heavyweight.


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Originally Posted by iceferg View Post
1. Joe Louis
2. Muhamed Ali
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Ezzard Charles
8. George Foreman
9. Joe Fraizer
10. Larry Holmes
Not even in my top ten. Also, having Frazier underneath them makes me physically ill.
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:06 PM   #39
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

Have you ever seen the doc where he actually explains that list? It's ****ing quality because Holmes is in the studio so he has to explain to his ****ing face why he is #10
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:08 PM   #40
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

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Have you ever seen the doc where he actually explains that list? It's ****ing quality because Holmes is in the studio so he has to explain to his ****ing face why he is #10
Is that the one with george chuvalo? And holmes basically shits on foreman?
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:09 PM   #41
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

Yeah just been watching it, and Holmes in all fairness wasn't a dick about it. so many greats out there that being in the top 10 is a complement
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:10 PM   #42
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

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Is that the one with george chuvalo? And holmes basically shits on foreman?
You could say.

It's got the footage Bonavena's KD by Frazier that doc.
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:26 PM   #43
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

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Have you ever seen the doc where he actually explains that list? It's ****ing quality because Holmes is in the studio so he has to explain to his ****ing face why he is #10
I live for moments like that on the television. ...I don't get ESPN Classic anymore. Mu****as tried to put a shakedown on ole Uncle Box. I have youtube, you ain't shakin' me down. You never got me down, cable company! You still never shook me down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post
Is that the one with george chuvalo? And holmes basically shits on foreman?
"He found a chestnut!" Larry never liked the fact he couldn't score a fight with George.
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:29 PM   #44
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

Fair play to him though. I admit it, straight up, I would change my list if i had him at #4 and found out he was going to be in the studio. I would move him to #2.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:35 PM   #45
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Default Re: Bert Sugar's top 10 ATG

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Why on earth is Tua above these two?

Interesting way to break it down though, kinda makes it fun again.
Tua absolutely destroyed Moorer
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