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Old 01-03-2013, 01:27 PM   #61
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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Originally Posted by IntentionalButt View Post
I think my operating assumption in bringing up these scenarios is that none of the knockdowns are too authoritative. Just a lot of flash-bangs, knuckles brushing the canvas, etc.

A good, hard knockdown should definitely be rewarded in the case of knockdown trades, the same way more effective punches are rewarded over an equivalent number of less effective ones.
That's one thing I was getting at with the initial scenario.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:47 PM   #62
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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I think my operating assumption in bringing up these scenarios is that none of the knockdowns are too authoritative. Just a lot of flash-bangs, knuckles brushing the canvas, etc.

A good, hard knockdown should definitely be rewarded in the case of knockdown trades, the same way more effective punches are rewarded over an equivalent number of less effective ones.
I'd still say 10-8 providing they were roughly equal in impact. Most of the time, a KD would get the puncher a 10-8 round providing his opponent didn't emphatically outperform him for the resat of the round and cut it to 10-9.

So, in those circumstances, in theory, a boxer with a net gain of +1 KD would have earned a 10-8 round.

I guess.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:39 PM   #63
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

Take the scenarios where a fighter gets KD at the end of the round. He comes out the next round still showing signs that he is hurt, able hold often and land the clearner counter punches and block punches, but the blocked punches are moving him like a typical hurt fighter, so you can say his opponent's punches were more effective. So he gets credit for defense and clean punching. Who wins this round?
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:43 PM   #64
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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I'd still say 10-8 providing they were roughly equal in impact. Most of the time, a KD would get the puncher a 10-8 round providing his opponent didn't emphatically outperform him for the resat of the round and cut it to 10-9.

So, in those circumstances, in theory, a boxer with a net gain of +1 KD would have earned a 10-8 round.

I guess.
Works for me.

Now, upping the degree of difficulty a little - what if Flamenco did the slightly better work during the two-and-a-half minutes they weren't knocking each other down? Like, strip away all the downs and it's a "close but clear" Flamenco frame? ...but he scores one KD, and Glass 2?

Still 10-8 Glass?
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:21 PM   #65
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

Great post, Juicebox.

Even though I am a former Amateur MW, (where the rules were pretty clear) even I get confused on some aspects of PRO boxing.

- Partly I think because the different governing bodies actually have different rules, or sometimes they purposely leaves things grey, so they can more easily manipulate the results.


I only skimmed through so far, but here's a question that I've never seen answered, and good luck trying to find an answer online:

--------------------

WHAT, SPECIFICALLY, CONSTITUTES A "LANDED BLOW" ? - for instance:

* What about blocked shots?

* What about shots to the arm?

* How about those wimp-assed sideways thumb-shots that Vitali was throwing at Manual Charr?

* EXACTLY how far to the side can you hit, on both body & head, before it's illegal? - And what if you hit on the side or back because your opponent turned/ ducked like a little bitch after you started throwing?


let the games begin ..........
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:24 PM   #66
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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Outstanding thread, this is what ESB needs more of
Yeah, whichever sagacious moderator deemed it worthy of a sticky sure nailed it.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:25 PM   #67
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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Originally Posted by IntentionalButt View Post
Works for me.

Now, upping the degree of difficulty a little - what if Flamenco did the slightly better work during the two-and-a-half minutes they weren't knocking each other down? Like, strip away all the downs and it's a "close but clear" Flamenco frame? ...but he scores one KD, and Glass 2?

Still 10-8 Glass?
Depends on the nature of the kd's. If all kd's are flash, then my personal two-point swing rule applies, and it's 10-9 Glass. If at least one of the kd's scored by Glass is a definitive kd, as opposed to a glove touch, I might be inclined to score it 10-8...if Don's were of the flash variety. In that case, the hard kd might be enough to warrant the two point margin.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:29 PM   #68
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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Depends on the nature of the kd's. If all kd's are flash, then my personal two-point swing rule applies, and it's 10-9 Glass. If at least one of the kd's scored by Glass is a definitive kd, as opposed to a glove touch, I might be inclined to score it 10-8...if Don's were of the flash variety. In that case, the hard kd might be enough to warrant the two point margin.
Sound.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:49 PM   #69
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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Depends on the nature of the kd's. If all kd's are flash, then my personal two-point swing rule applies, and it's 10-9 Glass. If at least one of the kd's scored by Glass is a definitive kd, as opposed to a glove touch, I might be inclined to score it 10-8...if Don's were of the flash variety. In that case, the hard kd might be enough to warrant the two point margin.
^What he said.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:55 PM   #70
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

I think the timing of the knockdowns effects my scoring as it can be a momentum shift.

Two examples that come to mind are round 1 of angulo - Kirkland and Williams - Martinez.

Both tines I gave the round to the man scoring the latter knockdown as the momentum shift was quite big and when asking "who would I rather be that round" the answer was clear.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:06 PM   #71
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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I think the timing of the knockdowns effects my scoring as it can be a momentum shift.

Two examples that come to mind are round 1 of angulo - Kirkland and Williams - Martinez.

Both times I gave the round to the man scoring the latter knockdown as the momentum shift was quite big and when asking "who would I rather be that round" the answer was clear.
While I admire this line of thought, I have to disagree. Scoring needs to be as objective as possible, and IMO this is not really objective. For instance, one could just as easily argue the opposite:

"the FIRST KD had more "momentum shift" because it happened with lots of time left in the round, whereas the second KD happened closer to the bell, so the guy who went down second had to survive for less time."

The KD's should cancel each other out, end of story.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:09 PM   #72
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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Originally Posted by Cableaddict View Post
While I admire this line of thought, I have to disagree. Scoring needs to be as objective as possible, and IMO this is not really objective. One could just as easily argue the opposite, for instance:

"the first KD had more "momentum shift" because it happened with lots of time left in the round, whereas the second KD happened closer to the bell, so the guy who went down second had to survive for less time."

The KD's should cancel each other out, end of story.
Two knockdowns don't necessarily mean an even round.

Angulo drops Kirkland and goes hell for leather on his arse with Kirkland ducking and weaving a whole lot of punches, he then counters him back, drops him hard and kicks arse in return.

10-9 Kirkland.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:35 PM   #73
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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Two knockdowns don't necessarily mean an even round.
- Not what I said. I said they nullify each other, so then you score the round based on the rest of the action.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:42 PM   #74
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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- Not what I said. I said they nullify each other, so then you score the round based on the rest of the action.
And I did, hence 10-9 to Kirkland.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:30 PM   #75
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^ OK then!
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