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Old 01-03-2013, 04:18 PM   #76
dempsey1234
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I think that Lomachenko didn't look as good as he usually does at those Worlds in 2011, including against Ramirez. He won comfortably imo but he didn't look like the phenom he usually does. Ramirez seems to get slower and less accurate every time I see him, he seems very determined so I think he might overtrain a bit. I actually think he has big potential if he gets his training right.
I'm sure those guys made every effort to sign Lomachenko, when you're that sort of talent you'd dictate everything and it seems that Lomachenko and his father are committed to making the right decision when it's time, they don't like to get ahead of themselves or rush anything.
I heard about that WSB thing and the pro records, pretty rotten but I don't think that will bother Lomachenko too much, he's not going to lose any fights. 5 rounds against other top amateurs and pro rules in the WSB, a 6 round debut against a lesser calibre fighter when he turns pro for real shouldn't be a challenge.
Do you know if they've made any attempts to rectify the WSB record counting as pro record thing?
Even a half ass Lomachenko was too much for Ramirez. I saw the fight after I heard all the BS that Ramirez was robbed. Most guys here were thinking, this Ramirez might be the real thing, but reality set in and not to be.
Ramirez needs something he didn't look good at all.
Fightfax which every commission in the states requires on any fighter. Their thinking is if they got paid then they were pro's. This is what I heard anyway.
Lomachenko wouldnt have any problems handling even a good eight rd fighter. I just hope someone does sign him and that they know how to move a special fighter like Loma.
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:21 PM   #77
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I've never really considered it before just at 20 I'm starting to think about what I want to do with myself. I'm only really starting to have a few fights and go to shows (out here in Oz they do lots of Pro-Am shows) I was just curious about how people got into it.
If you really want something you will find a way. Hang out, meet and talk to everybody, you never know if he could be the key leading to something else.
"Don't be shy"
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:28 PM   #78
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just wondering whats the cut of the purse from a pro fight ,,,are you the promoter and manager if so do you get two cuts of the purse ,,,
I dont really know about England, but in the states they have the Muhammad Ali law, which prevents just that, you cant be both in the states. Call your boxing commission or boxing board they can give you that info.
The cut depends on what you agreed to beforehand. Make sure you ask upfront.
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:44 PM   #79
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I dont really know about England, but in the states they have the Muhammad Ali law, which prevents just that, you cant be both in the states. Call your boxing commission or boxing board they can give you that info.
The cut depends on what you agreed to beforehand. Make sure you ask upfront.
I can remember hearing Buster Douglas break down how much of the purse from the Tyson fight actually made it in to his bank. It was frightening how little he actually got, but he thought that was normal.

It was like 10,000 out of 1.3m.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:09 PM   #80
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I can remember hearing Buster Douglas break down how much of the purse from the Tyson fight actually made it in to his bank. It was frightening how little he actually got, but he thought that was normal.

It was like 10,000 out of 1.3m.
It happens, the fighter and team usually are too trusting, and naive to the ways the business works. What usually happens is the fighter and team are so happy to get the opportunity that they become deaf, dumb and blind to whats on the contract.
It is sad, but it can prevented, fighters and team members should learn to read the contract and what it means, it's your right.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:31 PM   #81
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I can remember hearing Buster Douglas break down how much of the purse from the Tyson fight actually made it in to his bank. It was frightening how little he actually got, but he thought that was normal.

It was like 10,000 out of 1.3m.
Wait, wtf how is that possible?
I thought fighters made at least 50% of the purse?

Anyways, Dempsey i was just wondering is it possible for a fighter with no experience to self manage himself?

Like i know a lot of fighters do that (Winky Wright for example), but i`m guessing you would need a certain amount of experience before doing that.

Finally, how different are the responsibilities of the manager and promoter? Is it complicated being both?

Which is easier in your opinion.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:48 PM   #82
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Wait, wtf how is that possible?
I thought fighters made at least 50% of the purse?

Anyways, Dempsey i was just wondering is it possible for a fighter with no experience to self manage himself?

Like i know a lot of fighters do that (Winky Wright for example), but i`m guessing you would need a certain amount of experience before doing that.

Finally, how different are the responsibilities of the manager and promoter? Is it complicated being both?

Which is easier in your opinion.

Remember there were alot of hands reaching into Douglas's pocket, then came the taxman.
Could a fighter manage himself, sure it's possible but is it advisable? No, it's not. Not everybody needs a manager, a fighter can do that themselves. If they do a little homework, like finding out whats the going rate for a 4, 6, 8? The fighter has to then make the neccessary moves to get the better fights and bigger paydays, and believe me it's no fun, knocking on doors, fighting for a chance, arguing about an oppt or the purse. Remember also your oppt may have someone fighting for him, and chances are they get a better deal, in some cases not all depends who it is.
Neither is easy managing or promoting, promoters risk their money a manager risk's his time and some money.
In the US you cant manage and promote, Muhammad Ali law.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:14 AM   #83
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Wow awesome thread!

How common is it for promoters to make fighters buy there own fight? Here in Chicago the biggest promoter makes you sell tickets and buy your own fight.

Don't trainers get capped if a fighter is getting a 5 million dollar plus pay day. Can't the fighter say I will pay you 100,000 instead of 500,000.

What is the going average of pay for a fighter for a Espn 2 main event?
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:22 AM   #84
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How many pro fighters actually can make a living in this game? My guess is even if a fighter fought on HBO 4 times was ranked in the top 10 and went 2-2 on HBO that is not enough Money to live for the rest of your life.

How does some one like Lou Dibella get paid?

Out of all the big promoters or promoters you dealt with who is the best and most honest to deal with? Who is the worst?

Is the pay for fighters higher in Europe or US?
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:06 PM   #85
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Wow awesome thread!

How common is it for promoters to make fighters buy there own fight? Here in Chicago the biggest promoter makes you sell tickets and buy your own fight.

Don't trainers get capped if a fighter is getting a 5 million dollar plus pay day. Can't the fighter say I will pay you 100,000 instead of 500,000.

What is the going average of pay for a fighter for a Espn 2 main event?
Persoli is the promoter, right? He is a promoter who is trying to keep boxing alive in Chicago. Promoters to stay in business have to make ends meet and by making the fighter buy his own fights is now getting to be more and more common. Is it fair? No it's not, think what options are available to the fighter? Think if Persoli, went under what would happen to Chicago boxing? Now if Persoli, had sellouts and SRO's then I would get in his face about it.
Bout the capping some trainers dont want to hear stuff, they want their 10%. A fighter, and most trainers will hate this, when a fighter reaches that level, and the 10% becomes 500k, well thats a diffferent story. The trainers cut is then negotiated. Both parties have to be fair to each other. Some trainers and S&C guys now are requiring a contract, which I wouldn't advise my guys to sign.
Pay rate depends on a lot of things, so there really is no set rate but figure a minimum of 5k for an 8rdr and a minimum of 7.5k sometimes as low as 6k.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:34 PM   #86
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How many pro fighters actually can make a living in this game? My guess is even if a fighter fought on HBO 4 times was ranked in the top 10 and went 2-2 on HBO that is not enough Money to live for the rest of your life.

How does some one like Lou Dibella get paid?

Out of all the big promoters or promoters you dealt with who is the best and most honest to deal with? Who is the worst?

Is the pay for fighters higher in Europe or US?
You have to remember this, Boxing is a business, if you are good and producing. In fact you dont have to be good, think about Chavez jr, a while ago he was a joke, Canelo was rocked by a lightweight. In boxing if you have charisma, that will overcome almost everything.
Let me ask you something that will make you see what charisma and good looks can do. Imagine if Oscar DeLa Hoya, looked like Jose Luis Castillo, and Castillo had Oscar's skill, style and power? There wouldn't be a Goldenboy, period. Boxing is alot like showbiz, the fighter has to market himself, you want to get paid then bring something to the table besides your ability.
No you couldn't live the rest of your life on what you would make on 4 HBO appearances. If you are at that level it is better to be on the "A" side, the "B" side usually gets paid less and is considered the opponent.
Dibella gets paid as a promoter, he in turn pays the fighters out of that money. HBO will pay X dollars for a particular fight to the promoter, the promoter, negotiates with fighters and try to keep as much for himself as the fighter, if he is smart will try to get as much as they can, if each just remembers that each have to eat.
No promoter is honest or dishonest, going in, it's after they deal with you that first time will tell them if you are a newbie or someone who knows his shit, then it becomes a case who is going to win the negotiating war.
Overall I would say, US pays higher for the big fights, Germany and England pay more than the going rate if they bring someone in, like from the US.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:04 AM   #87
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Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

How can MMA guys get an edge in negotiating if there are no competing promotions to the UFC? HBO bids against Showtime in boxing, but there is only one big show in MMA.

Besides threatening to quit MMA, what could fighters do?
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:44 AM   #88
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How can MMA guys get an edge in negotiating if there are no competing promotions to the UFC? HBO bids against Showtime in boxing, but there is only one big show in MMA.

Besides threatening to quit MMA, what could fighters do?
MMA like Boxing is a talent driven sport/business. If I was going to compete with UFC long term my goal would be to find guys people want to see. For a while it was Chuck Lidell, and like in boxing charisma counts for alot. There is a formula and it works the hard part is finding somebody like Lidell and nuturing him. I know he wasn't an ATG or the best guy out there, but he provided what all fight fans wanted to see excitement. Somewhere out there is that kid who can change things.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:20 AM   #89
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But how would they push back? The org demands long term contracts locked in for really low wages.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:49 AM   #90
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But how would they push back? The org demands long term contracts locked in for really low wages.
Another promoter needs to step up and compete with UFC, which then gives you options until then it's pretty much the UFC way or the highway. I dont want to say read the contract and make the best deal for yourself, but beware you might get labeled "a problem" cos you asking too many questions. It really is unfair to the fighters. Anything I can suggest more than I have already can get you into trouble.
Especially when the promoter is making money hand over fist. Start a media campaign stating how unfair the fighters are being treated by the UFC, write and submit articles start beating the drums.
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