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Old 01-05-2013, 06:07 AM   #16
Bollox
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

True but the aesthetcs are dead wrong. Seeing a wrestler wrigling around on the ground is somehow a bit less than inspirational than the HW champ throwing a beautiful combination that ends with the opponent sprawled on the canvas
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:10 AM   #17
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

Igor Vochanchin at his best could beat almost any boxer in a streetfight, it,s all about ground fighting .
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:19 AM   #18
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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Originally Posted by Bollox View Post
True but the aesthetcs are dead wrong. Seeing a wrestler wrigling around on the ground is somehow a bit less than inspirational than the HW champ throwing a beautiful combination that ends with the opponent sprawled on the canvas
Overall, in real fights, wrestlers have the advantage. Wrestlers can not only take you down but they can also literally pick you up and throw you down on your head.
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:29 AM   #19
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

I've always thought that the best weapon a top boxer in his prime would have against top wrestlers, MMS guys etc, is the intimidation factor of knowing that 1 clean hit and it's all over

But I doubt we'll see this scenario often enough (if ever) to see the results
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:00 AM   #20
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

The current public perception BMOTP in English-speaking countries is probably some rapper who raps about blowing holes into cops, and drinking fine champagne off of strippers' ****s, then goes home, practices yoga, drinks green tea out of organic ceramic cups, has a well-adjusted domestic life with his significant other, chats appropriate stock portfolio management, and the guns are carried by his fourteen security guards, half of whom are former police officers.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:15 AM   #21
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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The heavyweight boxing champion as "the baddest man on the planet"? That was dumb then and it's dumb now. You really think that any heavyweight boxing champion would have an easy time with a wrestling champion of comparable size? The boxer's only chance would be to strike first and get a quick KO. Otherwise, the wrestler will take the boxer down and from there the boxer is at a huge disadvantage. And this is from before MMA even existed.
somewhat true but, having done some mma working out with fair college wrestlers (guys who were better wrestlers than I was a boxer) i have to say that many wrestler can't do mma because they end up being too scarred of punches....you start moving you hands and they freeze. In fact many wrestlers are like that the first few times they do full strikes with takedowns. It is really just a question of whether or not they can get past that hurdle and learn enough basic defense to be able to get inside without being hit clean. That usually takes a few months. So...I will say that a wrestling base with a few months of boxing will beat a boxing base with a few months of wrestling. But a pure boxer vs pure wrestler is a bit less certain.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:16 AM   #22
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

Boxing is as much about what you can't do as what you can do, and that is part of what makes the heavyweight champion the figure that he is.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:22 AM   #23
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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Originally Posted by Bollox View Post
True but the aesthetcs are dead wrong. Seeing a wrestler wrigling around on the ground is somehow a bit less than inspirational than the HW champ throwing a beautiful combination that ends with the opponent sprawled on the canvas
which is why you never have seen "real" "pro wrestling"...(actually back in the day some pro wrestling matches were real..but it was too boring and they became more and more staged/fake).

heck just look at mma..as much as people yep about BJJ and wrestling, what they want to see is stand up. Heck even the rules now makes guys stand if allot of action isnt happening on the floor...it actually hurts the chances for real BJJ guys, many of whom try to lal you to a relaxed state and than catch you after some time.

finally, look at London Prize Rules, it actually had take downs (judo type hip tosses mostly) but they went to Marque of Queensburry Rules....
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:27 AM   #24
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

They're trying to say President Assad is pretty bad.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:31 AM   #25
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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They're trying to say President Assad is pretty bad.
Yeah...you know it is true...plenty of men you could have put prime tyson in a room with and he would have ****ed his pants (a gun makes all those punches kind of meaningless). I mean..no one thinks Max Schemlling was the baddest man in Germany doring the 1930s do they? that title belonged to a 150 pound vegetarian art school reject. Same holds true for the boxing champs AND mma champs of today.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:44 AM   #26
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

I've never thought of the heavyweight boxing champion as the baddest man on the planet. As much as I revere Muhammad Ali, or as scary as Mike Tyson was in the 80s I always figured that a Navy Seal would gouge their eyes and tear their throats out hand to hand, or just shoot or knife them. Boxers are athletes after all. They are very good at fighting but the kind of things I've heard people getting medals of honor for are far more impressive than boxing with Joe Frazier. Same goes for MMA guys. The baddest man on the planet is a soldier.

1974-present Chris Kyle: US Navy Seal sniper Iraq War, 160 confirmed kills
1942-1999 Carlos Hath****: Vietnam marine sniper 93 confirmed kills
1931-2007 Zhang Taofang: Chinese Korean War sniper, 214 kills in 32 days
1924-1999 Lloyd L. Burke: MOH Korean War, killed 100 men, 2 mortar, 3 machine gun nests
1924-1971 Audie Murphy: most decorated American ww2, fought off a company from a burning tank
1924-2004 Matthaus Hetzenauer- German ww2 sniper, 345 kills
1922-present Hiroo Onoda: guerrilla fighter surrendered 30 years after ww2 was over
1922-1993 Erich Hartmann: German ww2 ace, 352 aerial victories, 1,404 combat missions
1921-1945 Kurt Knispel: German ww2 tank ace, 168 destroyed enemy tanks
1921-2008 Leo Major: captured a city single handed in WW2
1919-1942 Hans-Joachim M****ille: German ww2 ace, 158 victories over western forces
1919-present Ivan Sidorenko: Russian ww2 sniper, 500 kills
1918-1991 Poon Lim: survived alone on a life raft for 133 days, ate sharks
1916-1982 Hans-Ulrich Rudel: ww2 german stuka pilot, 2,530 combat missions, 800 vehicles, 519 tanks, 150 artillery pieces, a destroyer, two cruisers, one Soviet battleship, 70 landing craft, 4 armored trains, several bridges and nine aircraft which he shot down.
1916-1974 Lyudmila Pavlichenko: Russian ww2 sniper, 309 confirmed kills
1915-1991 Vasily Zaytsev: Russian ww2 sniper, 242 verified kills
1914-1942 Michael Wittmann: German ww2 tank ace, 138 tanks, 132 anti-tank guns
1913-1994 Johannes Steinhoff: German ww2 ace 176 aerial victories
1908-1994 Charles Upham: New Zealand ww2, 2VCs, and some awesome escapes as a POW
1908-1975 Otto Skorzeny: German ww2, led a series of daring raids, rescued Mussolini
1906-1996 Jack Churchill: WW2 soldier fought with broadsword and bow
1905-2002 Simo Hayha: Winter War Finnish sniper 505 confirmed kills, +200 submachinegun
1898-1971 Chesty Puller: most decorated U.S. Marine in history 5 Navy Crosses
1892-1918 Manfred von Richthofen: Red Baron, German ww1, 80 air combat victories
1891-1952 Francis Pegamagabow: Canadian ww1 sniper, 378 kills, 300 captures
1887-1964 Alvin C. York: most decorated ww1 American, killed 28, captured 132, and 32 mchguns
1886-1943 Billy Sing: Australian ww1 sniper: 150 confirmed kills
1873-1937 Daniel Daly: 2MOH, killed 200 in Boxer Rebellion
1837-1876 Wild Bill Hickok: lawman, duelist, and gambler shot between 30 and 100 men
1824-1900 Liver-Eating Johnson: 12 year one man war against Crow Indians
1823-1887 John Prettyjohns: first VC recipient Cremea War, ran out of bullets, used rocks instead
1816-? Jonathan R. Davis: killed 11 bandits with 2 pistols and a bowie knife
1796-1836 James Bowie: knife fighter, frontiersman, soldier, died at the Alamo
1785-1865 Jean-Louis Michel: Napoleonic fencer, defeated 13 opponents in 40 minutes
1780-1833 Hugh Glass: killed bear with knife, left for dead, crawled 200 miles to safety
1763-1808 Lewis Wetzel: Indian Hunter, guerrilla sniper
1754-1834 Richard Martin: fought over 100 duels with swords, knives, and pistols, survived 2 shipwrecks
1664-1730 Donald McBane: swordsman, soldier, gambler, pimp, and author
1584-1645 Miyamoto Musashi: victor of 60 sword duels
1147-1219 William Marshal: defeated 500 knights in tourneys
996-1031 Grettir Ásmundarson: Icelandic outlaw 20 years, fought multiple opponents at a time
910-990 Egill Skallagrimson: viking, pirate, mercenary, duelist, poet
48BC Marcus Cassius Scaeva: Caesar's greatest soldier
54BC Titus Pullo: Roman Centurion, played a great game of chicken with another soldier
d.479BC Aristodemos: Spartan survivor of Thermopylae, hero of the Battle of Plataea
508BC Horatius Cocles: held an army off at a bridge until it could be destroyed
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:51 AM   #27
rusak
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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Originally Posted by Johnstown View Post
somewhat true but, having done some mma working out with fair college wrestlers (guys who were better wrestlers than I was a boxer) i have to say that many wrestler can't do mma because they end up being too scarred of punches....you start moving you hands and they freeze. In fact many wrestlers are like that the first few times they do full strikes with takedowns. It is really just a question of whether or not they can get past that hurdle and learn enough basic defense to be able to get inside without being hit clean. That usually takes a few months. So...I will say that a wrestling base with a few months of boxing will beat a boxing base with a few months of wrestling. But a pure boxer vs pure wrestler is a bit less certain.
Wrestlers are used to "getting inside" on other wrestlers, who are actually trying to prevent it. It's nothing for a decent caliber (let alone champion) wrestler to take down someone standing upright or in a conventional boxing stance.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:23 AM   #28
Absolutely!
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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Watching Mercer get subbed like he did against Kimbo was embarrassing. I mean, if Mercer had lost to a seasoned MMA guy that would be one thing, but getting taken out by a hyped-up internet warrior like Kimbo? Come on! I don't care how old Ray was; he was an olympic gold medalist with an extensive amateur career as well as a pretty impressive professional record. That was embarrassing to boxing!
If a top tennis player like Jokovich were to match himself against an average player in the Pro Squash Tour and get beaten without winning a single game then would that speak badly against his tennis prowess? I doubt it would, and those two sports at least have superficial similarities. Punching someone in the face and twisting their limbs till they squeal don't have much in common except for trying to cause the other person damage and pain. Kimbo, whatever you may think of him, has trained in MMA for a longer period of time than Mercer, and has more experience of applying (and I assume defending against) jointlocks. Mercer's extensive amateur career and impressive professional record don't have any bearing on that.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:32 AM   #29
Shake
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

The way heavyweights are getting bigger and heavier, it is only a matter of time before a superior athlete is born who has bulk, explosiveness and heavy hands. The moment when there is another boxing "boom" will come.

All of it is perception, really. As others have pointed out, at no moment in history was the heavyweight champ the best in a street fight.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:39 AM   #30
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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Originally Posted by Ovid***ile View Post
I've never thought of the heavyweight boxing champion as the baddest man on the planet. As much as I revere Muhammad Ali, or as scary as Mike Tyson was in the 80s I always figured that a Navy Seal would gouge their eyes and tear their throats out hand to hand, or just shoot or knife them. Boxers are athletes after all. They are very good at fighting but the kind of things I've heard people getting medals of honor for are far more impressive than boxing with Joe Frazier. Same goes for MMA guys. The baddest man on the planet is a soldier.

1974-present Chris Kyle: US Navy Seal sniper Iraq War, 160 confirmed kills
1942-1999 Carlos Hath****: Vietnam marine sniper 93 confirmed kills
1931-2007 Zhang Taofang: Chinese Korean War sniper, 214 kills in 32 days
1924-1999 Lloyd L. Burke: MOH Korean War, killed 100 men, 2 mortar, 3 machine gun nests
1924-1971 Audie Murphy: most decorated American ww2, fought off a company from a burning tank
1924-2004 Matthaus Hetzenauer- German ww2 sniper, 345 kills
1922-present Hiroo Onoda: guerrilla fighter surrendered 30 years after ww2 was over
1922-1993 Erich Hartmann: German ww2 ace, 352 aerial victories, 1,404 combat missions
1921-1945 Kurt Knispel: German ww2 tank ace, 168 destroyed enemy tanks
1921-2008 Leo Major: captured a city single handed in WW2
1919-1942 Hans-Joachim M****ille: German ww2 ace, 158 victories over western forces
1919-present Ivan Sidorenko: Russian ww2 sniper, 500 kills
1918-1991 Poon Lim: survived alone on a life raft for 133 days, ate sharks
1916-1982 Hans-Ulrich Rudel: ww2 german stuka pilot, 2,530 combat missions, 800 vehicles, 519 tanks, 150 artillery pieces, a destroyer, two cruisers, one Soviet battleship, 70 landing craft, 4 armored trains, several bridges and nine aircraft which he shot down.
1916-1974 Lyudmila Pavlichenko: Russian ww2 sniper, 309 confirmed kills
1915-1991 Vasily Zaytsev: Russian ww2 sniper, 242 verified kills
1914-1942 Michael Wittmann: German ww2 tank ace, 138 tanks, 132 anti-tank guns
1913-1994 Johannes Steinhoff: German ww2 ace 176 aerial victories
1908-1994 Charles Upham: New Zealand ww2, 2VCs, and some awesome escapes as a POW
1908-1975 Otto Skorzeny: German ww2, led a series of daring raids, rescued Mussolini
1906-1996 Jack Churchill: WW2 soldier fought with broadsword and bow
1905-2002 Simo Hayha: Winter War Finnish sniper 505 confirmed kills, +200 submachinegun
1898-1971 Chesty Puller: most decorated U.S. Marine in history 5 Navy Crosses
1892-1918 Manfred von Richthofen: Red Baron, German ww1, 80 air combat victories
1891-1952 Francis Pegamagabow: Canadian ww1 sniper, 378 kills, 300 captures
1887-1964 Alvin C. York: most decorated ww1 American, killed 28, captured 132, and 32 mchguns
1886-1943 Billy Sing: Australian ww1 sniper: 150 confirmed kills
1873-1937 Daniel Daly: 2MOH, killed 200 in Boxer Rebellion
1837-1876 Wild Bill Hickok: lawman, duelist, and gambler shot between 30 and 100 men
1824-1900 Liver-Eating Johnson: 12 year one man war against Crow Indians
1823-1887 John Prettyjohns: first VC recipient Cremea War, ran out of bullets, used rocks instead
1816-? Jonathan R. Davis: killed 11 bandits with 2 pistols and a bowie knife
1796-1836 James Bowie: knife fighter, frontiersman, soldier, died at the Alamo
1785-1865 Jean-Louis Michel: Napoleonic fencer, defeated 13 opponents in 40 minutes
1780-1833 Hugh Glass: killed bear with knife, left for dead, crawled 200 miles to safety
1763-1808 Lewis Wetzel: Indian Hunter, guerrilla sniper
1754-1834 Richard Martin: fought over 100 duels with swords, knives, and pistols, survived 2 shipwrecks
1664-1730 Donald McBane: swordsman, soldier, gambler, pimp, and author
1584-1645 Miyamoto Musashi: victor of 60 sword duels
1147-1219 William Marshal: defeated 500 knights in tourneys
996-1031 Grettir Ásmundarson: Icelandic outlaw 20 years, fought multiple opponents at a time
910-990 Egill Skallagrimson: viking, pirate, mercenary, duelist, poet
48BC Marcus Cassius Scaeva: Caesar's greatest soldier
54BC Titus Pullo: Roman Centurion, played a great game of chicken with another soldier
d.479BC Aristodemos: Spartan survivor of Thermopylae, hero of the Battle of Plataea
508BC Horatius Cocles: held an army off at a bridge until it could be destroyed
Yep.

If you realy wanted to win a fight with Wladamir Klitschko, you could just shoot him.
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