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Old 01-05-2013, 10:40 AM   #721
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Seamus you are usually a good poster but this is a ridiculous statement, i know you love Big guys but lets not overlook greatness or power...If Walcott landed the Marciano or Charles left hook on Wladmirs or Lennox's chin clean and square they would surely fall, Vlad did get up from a fall but Lennox never did to beat the count...I do take size into account but a clean well timed pin-point power punch can put anyone down and muscled as the big guys may be Rahman,McCall, Brewster,Sanders,Purity I am not sure they had the one shot power of JJW or even the 188lb Marciano and I am sure that both big men if tagged clean would go down by the Lil old guys...This tread has no balance reminds me of the last USA election...no balance or truth
Sure, if they got caught absolutely perfectly square on the chin and didn't brace themselves and dipped slightly to bring them down a peg then their lights might be put out. Is any of that likely though? Tua caught Lennox several times throughout their fight, with no real effect, and he only really caught him by leaping forward. Morrison didn't land anything of consequence. Both of those guys had significantly more one punch power in their lefts than JJ or Charles. It's overhand rights that tend to do in taller fighters, not hooks. And the overhand is a punch that tends to increase in power relative to size, because it requires you to throw your whole bodyweight into it. Brewster and Rahman were both huge men who did just that. McCall to a slightly lesser degree as well. As for Sanders, he was a similarly huge man with incredible handspeed for a man his size, and proven power against the likes of Vit Klit whom he badly rocked and (unofficially) knocked down. He was crude as a cucumber, but I doubt you'd find anyone criticizing his lack of power.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:26 PM   #722
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Seamus you are usually a good poster but this is a ridiculous statement, i know you love Big guys but lets not overlook greatness or power...If Walcott landed the Marciano or Charles left hook on Wladmirs or Lennox's chin clean and square they would surely fall, Vlad did get up from a fall but Lennox never did to beat the count...I do take size into account but a clean well timed pin-point power punch can put anyone down and muscled as the big guys may be Rahman,McCall, Brewster,Sanders,Purity I am not sure they had the one shot power of JJW or even the 188lb Marciano and I am sure that both big men if tagged clean would go down by the Lil old guys...This tread has no balance reminds me of the last USA election...no balance or truth
I would gamble my house on the fact that Rahman, Brewster, Sanders and McCall hit harder than Walcott. In fact, of those four, power is the one constant. McCall had the chin, Rahman the jab, Sanders the speed... but power in an era of super heavies (which for all intents and purpose should be a different division) is what they all really possessed... not power against blown-up light heavies with a sprinkling of pituitary cases but power night in and night out against legit modern super heavies.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:44 PM   #723
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

[quote=Seamus;14524339]I would gamble my house on the fact that Rahman, Brewster, Sanders and McCall hit harder than Walcott. In fact, of those four, power is the one constant. McCall had the chin, Rahman the jab, Sanders the speed... but power in an era of super heavies (which for all intents and purpose should be a different division) is what they all really possessed... not power against blown-up light heavies with a sprinkling of pituitary cases but power night in and night out against legit modern super heavies.[/quote

a punch is a punch and a puncher can take out any man...I seen Chris handle Tua with ease and also stayed in with Vitali and he was supposed to the little guys with ease but there are other factors and the 190lbers from the 50's could crack

I agree that the size of guys has changed and the 190lbers from the 1950's would now weight 240lbs but never seen Byrd embarrassed like this


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Old 01-06-2013, 11:26 PM   #724
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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a punch is a punch and a puncher can take out any man...
Then, why the bother with weight divisions?

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I agree that the size of guys has changed and the 190lbers from the 1950's would now weight 240lbs
Seriously, guys with the frames of Marciano and Charles and Walcott would weigh 240 pounds? That is beyond ridiculous.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:32 PM   #725
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

[quote=Bummy Davis;14525298]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
I would gamble my house on the fact that Rahman, Brewster, Sanders and McCall hit harder than Walcott. In fact, of those four, power is the one constant. McCall had the chin, Rahman the jab, Sanders the speed... but power in an era of super heavies (which for all intents and purpose should be a different division) is what they all really possessed... not power against blown-up light heavies with a sprinkling of pituitary cases but power night in and night out against legit modern super heavies.[/quote

a punch is a punch and a puncher can take out any man...I seen Chris handle Tua with ease and also stayed in with Vitali and he was supposed to the little guys with ease but there are other factors and the 190lbers from the 50's could crack

I agree that the size of guys has changed and the 190lbers from the 1950's would now weight 240lbs but never seen Byrd embarrassed like this


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Ridiculous. When a fighter drops 35 pounds at nearly 38 to a weight he hasn't fought at for 15 years, that's what happens - their punch resistance goes out the window.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:00 AM   #726
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Then, why the bother with weight divisions?



Seriously, guys with the frames of Marciano and Charles and Walcott would weigh 240 pounds? That is beyond ridiculous.
Certainly not Marciano or Charles but Walcott certainly could, although not necassarily would, ask people who have met him in real life how big the dude was. Walcott was around 195lbs in the 1950's while juggling a 9-5, boxing and his family he even admitted there was about a 10 year period where he was basically always hungry/starving. Give him a modern upbringing with modern food and dieting, some weights, the fat percentage of most top heavyweights nowadays, some PEDS and see how his weight would go up.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:01 AM   #727
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

[quote=rusak;14525400]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummy Davis View Post
Ridiculous. When a fighter drops 35 pounds at nearly 38 to a weight he hasn't fought at for 15 years, that's what happens - their punch resistance goes out the window.
Hell, it happened to Roy Jones, Jr, earlier with less of a drop in weight. Going back down the ladder is a dangerous thing to do late in a career.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:15 AM   #728
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Weight divisions are for the lower classes where 5-10 pounds can make a big difference. Hwt division has always been termed "unlimited".

To say that Walcott, Louis, Dempsey, Marciano could not KD or KO Wlad or any big man with a single blow is just plain stupidity. Certainly they could and it would not need to be a freak blow that some posters are implying.

Brewster was a bum and he Koed Wlad. History of boxing is full of small hwts knocking out huge fighters. Louis Koed every big man he ever faced. Where did size ever help anyone who fought Ali? Look at the hwts 170 pound Mickey Walker Koed and Koed early. Look at the hwts Moore Koed.

With punching power its timing, speed and the ability to put your bodyweight behind the blow that really matters. With these skills you can KO any man at any time.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:47 AM   #729
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Weight divisions are for the lower classes where 5-10 pounds can make a big difference. Hwt division has always been termed "unlimited".

To say that Walcott, Louis, Dempsey, Marciano could not KD or KO Wlad or any big man with a single blow is just plain stupidity. Certainly they could and it would not need to be a freak blow that some posters are implying.

Brewster was a bum and he Koed Wlad. History of boxing is full of small hwts knocking out huge fighters. Louis Koed every big man he ever faced. Where did size ever help anyone who fought Ali? Look at the hwts 170 pound Mickey Walker Koed and Koed early. Look at the hwts Moore Koed.

With punching power its timing, speed and the ability to put your bodyweight behind the blow that really matters. With these skills you can KO any man at any time.
A bum known for his exceptional chin.
Technically he only TKOd Wlad, which means a little bit less than a KO.

Big hws only lose when the naturally lighter fighters are much more skilled.
Joe Louis outweighted 70% of his opponents! He was the big man in the division himself.
So did Lennox Lewis.
Mike Tyson outweighted the majority when he was in his prime, Frazier did, Ali did, Liston did, Foreman did, Wlad does, Vitali does, Bowe did.

And before saying a guy like Tyson always had to fight taller men, lenght doesn't mean shit.
Oscar de la Hoya is rangier, taller, faster, more skilled than David Tua, he still wouldn't survive 1 round.

Also why would someone who can make the cruiser limit and isn't lazy ever go to hw division besides money and fame?
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:47 AM   #730
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Dateline May 22nd, 1953

After years of arduous training, Rocky Marciano succeeds in raising his arms aloft and over his own head, his fists reaching a dizzying height of 6 foot and 3 inches, heretofore never attained.

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Old 01-07-2013, 11:14 AM   #731
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Dateline May 22nd, 1953

After years of arduous training, Rocky Marciano succeeds in raising his arms aloft and over his own head, his fists reaching a dizzying height of 6 foot and 3 inches, heretofore never attained.

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What's a young James Cromwell doing in the bottom right?
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:19 AM   #732
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Dateline May 22nd, 1953

After years of arduous training, Rocky Marciano succeeds in raising his arms aloft and over his own head, his fists reaching a dizzying height of 6 foot and 3 inches, heretofore never attained.

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I calculated with this picture
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I thought he could reach 213 cm.

But 190cm is really "terrible"
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:31 AM   #733
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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a punch is a punch and a puncher can take out any man...I seen Chris handle Tua with ease and also stayed in with Vitali and he was supposed to the little guys with ease but there are other factors and the 190lbers from the 50's could crack
When did Byrd "take out" David Tua? He outboxed him. Never took out Vitali either, not in the tradition sense of knocking him out. I really don't get the point here. Are you trying to say that a fighter who beats another fighter in boxing only does so because they punched them harder, and not because they were more skilled, smarter, had a better gameplan etc?

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I agree that the size of guys has changed and the 190lbers from the 1950's would now weight 240lbs but never seen Byrd embarrassed like this
Rocky today would still fight in the cruiserweight division, though he'd probably be at the 200lb limit. Think someone like Giacobbe Fragomeni or Denis Lebedev. If he ever moved up to heavyweight he'd be morbidly obese.

Walcott might have made the grade a little better, but no way does he reach the 240s without turning himself into a human punchingbag. Most modern heavyweights are only in the 240s because they're lazy. Unless you're over six four/six five, you're not going to be able to hold that weight well and still be able to fight at your best.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:34 AM   #734
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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The size disparity between the two is so cartoonish it pains me to even wonder how anybody could argue Marciano.
Because they have unreasonable expectations for what Rocky could do, and can't understand that a big man of Wlad's size could be anything other than a flat-footed oaf in the manner of Carnera and co.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:44 AM   #735
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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When did Byrd "take out" David Tua? He outboxed him. Never took out Vitali either, not in the tradition sense of knocking him out. I really don't get the point here. Are you trying to say that a fighter who beats another fighter in boxing only does so because they punched them harder, and not because they were more skilled, smarter, had a better gameplan etc?



Rocky today would still fight in the cruiserweight division, though he'd probably be at the 200lb limit. Think someone like Giacobbe Fragomeni or Denis Lebedev. If he ever moved up to heavyweight he'd be morbidly obese.

Walcott might have made the grade a little better, but no way does he reach the 240s without turning himself into a human punchingbag. Most modern heavyweights are only in the 240s because they're lazy. Unless you're over six four/six five, you're not going to be able to hold that weight well and still be able to fight at your best.
Depends on your built
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What also seemed to happen after the 50s/60s is that hipsize began to increase too which in turn led to somewhat bigger bodies.
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