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Old 01-05-2013, 10:32 AM   #46
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Default Re: I Want to Become a Slickster

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the injury's reveal the truth
What on earth are you talking about? Research shows that stretching doesn't prevent injury. Muscle tears generally occur within a 20% range of resting length. Athletes use dynamic stretching during their warm up i.e. swinging their arms and legs through the range of motion. That's for performance and does nothing to prevent injury. Holding stretches (static stretching) decreases power, coordination and most likely increases injury risk as the cytoskeleton is stretched instead of the actin and myosin. That means by holding stretches you're more flexible at rest, makes no difference during activity though (crossbridge cycling).
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:35 AM   #47
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Think I do, been round it long enough.
Being around it doesn't mean you understand it, if you did you wouldn't be claiming that you have some sort of truth that hasn't revealed itself during hundreds of studies.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:24 AM   #48
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Yeah I seriously doubt that, but please go ahead. I don't think you understand how the scientific method works at all.
Maybe Scrap has something that may change a few things, maybe he hasn't, but insulting him before he even gives you anything to look at because of some studies and what you've read isn't the right way to go.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:14 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by viru§™ View Post
Maybe Scrap has something that may change a few things, maybe he hasn't, but insulting him before he even gives you anything to look at because of some studies and what you've read isn't the right way to go.
Might even have turned everything on its Head, its looking that way, .
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:04 PM   #50
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Default Re: I Want to Become a Slickster

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Originally Posted by dealt_with View Post
What on earth are you talking about? Research shows that stretching doesn't prevent injury. Muscle tears generally occur within a 20% range of resting length. Athletes use dynamic stretching during their warm up i.e. swinging their arms and legs through the range of motion. That's for performance and does nothing to prevent injury. Holding stretches (static stretching) decreases power, coordination and most likely increases injury risk as the cytoskeleton is stretched instead of the actin and myosin. That means by holding stretches you're more flexible at rest, makes no difference during activity though (crossbridge cycling).
so warming up by dynamic stretching doesn't prevent injury?

and with the static stretching, I don't mean to do that before you workout. I'm talking about after a workout or on it's own with the intent on increasing range of motion (which I do in the form of yoga).
I don't have nearly as many problems with injuries every since I started doing yoga, mostly in my lowerback
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:17 PM   #51
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so warming up by dynamic stretching doesn't prevent injury?

and with the static stretching, I don't mean to do that before you workout. I'm talking about after a workout or on it's own with the intent on increasing range of motion (which I do in the form of yoga).
I don't have nearly as many problems with injuries every since I started doing yoga, mostly in my lowerback
Nope, it helps with performance though so it's very important.
Increasing range of motion with static stretching has nothing to do with range of motion while moving, also having tendons and joints that are too compliant/loose will make you less powerful and increase your injury risk. The yoga benefits would be from body awareness, proprioception and understanding how everything lines up most efficiently. Yoga is great but not because of any flexibility benefits.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:30 PM   #52
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Maybe Scrap has something that may change a few things, maybe he hasn't, but insulting him before he even gives you anything to look at because of some studies and what you've read isn't the right way to go.
Scrap from what I've seen always hints at things without explaining anything, if he's going to make sensational claims then he needs to put up or shut up. He hasn't even come close to attempting to explain anything, he just says this gives this benefit even though what he is saying is not backed up in the slightest by the scientific literature. And it's not just some studies, it's literally hundreds. If someone claims to have the truth and it goes against what every other study says then they don't understand the scientific method at all, that's not an insult but a fact. There are always studies that disagree with other studies (usually explained by their methodology) and that calls for further research, there's no truths or facts coming from one person that can't be replicated. The opposite of what Scrap said has been replicated in hundreds of studies by people with a deep understanding of the neuromuscular effects from stretching so for him to say that he's going to turn all of that on it's head sounds like the ramblings of a delusional man to me. I hope he can bring something new and I hope he has some good academics working around him to bring some credibility to what he's saying. I'm highly skeptical for very good reason. I don't believe I've been disrespectful at all, I'm just asking for some brief explanation of the neuromuscular mechanisms he apparently has esoteric knowledge about.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:51 PM   #53
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The yoga benefits would be from body awareness, proprioception and understanding how everything lines up most efficiently.
Well this still backs up my original thesis. Yoga could help you become a slicker boxer
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:06 PM   #54
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Well this still backs up my original thesis. Yoga could help you become a slicker boxer
Yeah I agree.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:34 AM   #55
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Yeah I agree.
With all due respect, that is asinine. Yoga will not make you slick!! Never in life will yoga, or any other conditioning exercise (and you can name it) make you a boxer, much less a good boxer. Far less the chance of it making you "slick,"
Physical conditioning does not make you a good boxer; it certainly contributes to your ability to be such. But, in and of itself, it is irrelevant.
dealtwith...I don't know you at all, but I'll venture a guess that you've spent no time actually boxing. The foundation of boxing is knowledge gained in the ring.
If you are going to argue otherwise, that running around a track or doing exercise will compensate, you are misguided. There is no substitute.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:35 AM   #56
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With all due respect, that is asinine. Yoga will not make you slick!! Never in life will yoga, or any other conditioning exercise (and you can name it) make you a boxer, much less a good boxer. Far less the chance of it making you "slick,"
Physical conditioning does not make you a good boxer; it certainly contributes to your ability to be such. But, in and of itself, it is irrelevant.
dealtwith...I don't know you at all, but I'll venture a guess that you've spent no time actually boxing. The foundation of boxing is knowledge gained in the ring.
If you are going to argue otherwise, that running around a track or doing exercise will compensate, you are misguided. There is no substitute.
When have I ever claimed that some other exercise will compensate? The things I've talked about are supplementary, they add to and support your skill training. I would never claim that things like yoga, weights etc. are a substitute, I'd love to know how you're getting that. It's not either or, you need a bit of everything. Anything that helps you become more aware of your body and improves proprioception is going to help your boxing, you don't have one body for boxing and one body for everything else. Strength training accelerates motor learning as I mentioned before. You need to open your mind up a bit, you're not going to be the best boxer you can be if all you do is boxing.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:28 AM   #57
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When have I ever claimed that some other exercise will compensate? The things I've talked about are supplementary, they add to and support your skill training. I would never claim that things like yoga, weights etc. are a substitute, I'd love to know how you're getting that. It's not either or, you need a bit of everything. Anything that helps you become more aware of your body and improves proprioception is going to help your boxing, you don't have one body for boxing and one body for everything else. Strength training accelerates motor learning as I mentioned before. You need to open your mind up a bit, you're not going to be the best boxer you can be if all you do is boxing.
Again, i mean no disrespect...All these other exercises and drills will, I suppose, aid and abet your ability to box....Let me ask this...
If you went to eddie Futch and said "Eddie, teach me to be slick." And then he showed you yoga stretches, you'd be mad as ****. The skills needed to be "slick" are 1000% independent of any skill that can be learned by jogging, break dancing or yoga.
The question was, originally, how to be slick. The one and only answer to that question is to get into the ring and learn how to fight.You all have gotten onto a tangent that, to me, summarizes all that is wrong with boxing today.
CHECK THIS OUT. You will never be a great fighter until you learn how to fight. That requires a teacher that knows about fighting and can teach you how to learn. No matter how far you run or how much yoga you do or which muscles in your ass you stretch, it won't make you know how to fight. The term slick connotates a cat that knows how to fight. That is knowledge based.
You guys that think that you can deduce boxing to a physical exercise are way the **** off.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:19 AM   #58
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Again, i mean no disrespect...All these other exercises and drills will, I suppose, aid and abet your ability to box....Let me ask this...
If you went to eddie Futch and said "Eddie, teach me to be slick." And then he showed you yoga stretches, you'd be mad as ****. The skills needed to be "slick" are 1000% independent of any skill that can be learned by jogging, break dancing or yoga.
The question was, originally, how to be slick. The one and only answer to that question is to get into the ring and learn how to fight.You all have gotten onto a tangent that, to me, summarizes all that is wrong with boxing today.
CHECK THIS OUT. You will never be a great fighter until you learn how to fight. That requires a teacher that knows about fighting and can teach you how to learn. No matter how far you run or how much yoga you do or which muscles in your ass you stretch, it won't make you know how to fight. The term slick connotates a cat that knows how to fight. That is knowledge based.
You guys that think that you can deduce boxing to a physical exercise are way the **** off.

Skills are never independent of each other, whatever you do has an effect on your coordination, balance etc.
Of course you need to learn how to fight to be a great fighter but to say that something else that improves your coordination, balance, motor learning ability etc. isn't going to improve your boxing game is quite simply moronic.
Everything has a transfer effect of some sort, something that makes you more aware of your position in space such as yoga is going to help your boxing. It would be impossible for it not to, if your brain has a better map of your body it is going to help you when you're boxing. That's a fact whether you like it or not. A slick fighter is coordinated, can move out of a good position and back into a good position with ease, has finesse and is efficient with their movement. Things that require balance and awareness of the body.
Boxing is both knowledge based and a physical exercise, you only have one brain and it's responsible for everything physical, everything you do to your body sends messages back to your brain and in return the brain adjusts. You improve the connection between your proprioceptors and your brain and more efficient movement is produced.
Everything physical you do is improving your knowledge of movement subconsciously in the cerebellum. The more points of reference you have throughout your body the more coordinated you're going to be, you have a more detailed map so you can make smaller, more precise adjustments. And that will help you become a 'slicker' boxer.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:05 AM   #59
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Default Re: I Want to Become a Slickster

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Originally Posted by dealt_with View Post

Skills are never independent of each other, whatever you do has an effect on your coordination, balance etc.
Of course you need to learn how to fight to be a great fighter but to say that something else that improves your coordination, balance, motor learning ability etc. isn't going to improve your boxing game is quite simply moronic.
Everything has a transfer effect of some sort, something that makes you more aware of your position in space such as yoga is going to help your boxing. It would be impossible for it not to, if your brain has a better map of your body it is going to help you when you're boxing. That's a fact whether you like it or not. A slick fighter is coordinated, can move out of a good position and back into a good position with ease, has finesse and is efficient with their movement. Things that require balance and awareness of the body.
Boxing is both knowledge based and a physical exercise, you only have one brain and it's responsible for everything physical, everything you do to your body sends messages back to your brain and in return the brain adjusts. You improve the connection between your proprioceptors and your brain and more efficient movement is produced.
Everything physical you do is improving your knowledge of movement subconsciously in the cerebellum. The more points of reference you have throughout your body the more coordinated you're going to be, you have a more detailed map so you can make smaller, more precise adjustments. And that will help you become a 'slicker' boxer.
But you are not understanding the question originally posed, and please don't refer to me as moronic. The question was "I want to be a slickster." Would you, in any way shape or form, judge the answer to that question to be...do yoga, duck under a slip line, or work your glutes?
So many, far too many, teach boxing as an exercise you can get good at by doing something else and that simply is not true. I don't give a screaming **** how far you can run or how high you can jump...has nothing at all to do with your boxing ability. If you ALREADY know how to fight, it may well enhance that ability. In and of itself it will not make you a good fighter. Learn how to fight. That creates the muscle memory that allows you to slip, counter, turn a guy, all the things that make you slick. Nothing else has **** all to do with it because it is based on boxing specific knowledge and you acquire boxing specific knowledge only by boxing.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:39 AM   #60
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Default Re: I Want to Become a Slickster

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But you are not understanding the question originally posed, and please don't refer to me as moronic. The question was "I want to be a slickster." Would you, in any way shape or form, judge the answer to that question to be...do yoga, duck under a slip line, or work your glutes?
So many, far too many, teach boxing as an exercise you can get good at by doing something else and that simply is not true. I don't give a screaming **** how far you can run or how high you can jump...has nothing at all to do with your boxing ability. If you ALREADY know how to fight, it may well enhance that ability. In and of itself it will not make you a good fighter. Learn how to fight. That creates the muscle memory that allows you to slip, counter, turn a guy, all the things that make you slick. Nothing else has **** all to do with it because it is based on boxing specific knowledge and you acquire boxing specific knowledge only by boxing.
It will definitely enhance your boxing ability.
But i dont understand this,no one said you will learn how to be slick by doing yoga.Who implied that?
But will it help that ability? Ofc it will,no question about it.
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