Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

[Absolutely!]

Originally Posted by orriray59

The size disparity between the two is so cartoonish it pains me to even wonder how anybody could argue Marciano.

Because they have unreasonable expectations for what Rocky could do, and can't understand that a big man of Wlad's size could be anything other than a flat-footed oaf in the manner of Carnera and co.

[dyna]

Originally Posted by Absolutely!

When did Byrd "take out" David Tua? He outboxed him. Never took out Vitali either, not in the tradition sense of knocking him out. I really don't get the point here. Are you trying to say that a fighter who beats another fighter in boxing only does so because they punched them harder, and not because they were more skilled, smarter, had a better gameplan etc?



Rocky today would still fight in the cruiserweight division, though he'd probably be at the 200lb limit. Think someone like Giacobbe Fragomeni or Denis Lebedev. If he ever moved up to heavyweight he'd be morbidly obese.

Walcott might have made the grade a little better, but no way does he reach the 240s without turning himself into a human punchingbag. Most modern heavyweights are only in the 240s because they're lazy. Unless you're over six four/six five, you're not going to be able to hold that weight well and still be able to fight at your best.

Depends on your built


What also seemed to happen after the 50s/60s is that hipsize began to increase too which in turn led to somewhat bigger bodies.

[orriray59]

Originally Posted by Absolutely!

Because they have unreasonable expectations for what Rocky could do, and can't understand that a big man of Wlad's size could be anything other than a flat-footed oaf in the manner of Carnera and co.

Indeed. Some of their posts paint such a strange caricature of Marciano, saying he has faster hands and feet than Wlad.

[Absolutely!]

Originally Posted by dyna

Depends on your built


What also seemed to happen after the 50s/60s is that hipsize began to increase too which in turn led to somewhat bigger bodies.

I'm aware that there are different bodytypes, but even so there is no way a man who's say six foot one should weigh in the 240s, I don't care how stocky or wide he is. Look at Ray Mercer. Very similar build to Sam Peter but was fighting like a beast at 215.

Was Dereck Chisora really a natural 37lbs heavier than Haye or did he just not train as hard? While I agree that heavyweights on the whole have naturally become larger men, there has also been a corresponding decline in hard training resulting in overweight blobs like Arreola and Solis blubbering up the scene.

[Absolutely!]

Originally Posted by orriray59

Indeed. Some of their posts paint such a strange caricature of Marciano, saying he has faster hands and feet than Wlad.

The way both fighters are described it makes me think they have something like prime Tyson vs Helenius in their mind.

[HOUDINI]

Sorry meant to write PURRITY not BREWSTER.

Look how "cartoonish" the weigh in between Simon and Joe Louis looks. Looks like a little boy vs a man. Louis knocked him out twice as he did with all the huge fighters he faced.

Cant get around that Wlad was Koed so decisively and so comically three times by fighters so very much inferior to Rocky Marciano. I throw size out the window...the greater fighter will win and the greater fighter is NOT Wlad.

[rusak]

Originally Posted by HOUDINI

Sorry meant to write PURRITY not BREWSTER.

Look how "cartoonish" the weigh in between Simon and Joe Louis looks. Looks like a little boy vs a man. Louis knocked him out twice as he did with all the huge fighters he faced.

Cant get around that Wlad was Koed so decisively and so comically three times by fighters so very much inferior to Rocky Marciano. I throw size out the window...the greater fighter will win and the greater fighter is NOT Wlad.

What do you think would happen to Louis' power if he wasn't wearing 5 and 6 ounce gloves but 10 or 12 ouncers?

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by HOUDINI

I throw size out the window...the greater fighter will win and the greater fighter is NOT Wlad.

So, Panama Al Brown would KO Frans Botha?

And who says Wlad is not the greater fighter? He has been the best heavyweight longer for as long as Marciano had a career in the sport. There is at least an argument to made there.

[dyna]

Originally Posted by rusak

What do you think would happen to Louis' power if he wasn't wearing 5 and 6 ounce gloves but 10 or 12 ouncers?

Bigger gloves have more padding, heavier gloves make your hand slower.

The energy transfer stays the same but he would lose his sharpness.

[Manassa]

Originally Posted by dyna

Bigger gloves have more padding, heavier gloves make your hand slower.

The energy transfer stays the same but he would lose his sharpness.

Yeah, less speed, more weight and surface area. The trade off could very well be quite profitable, or not.

[rusak]

Originally Posted by Manassa

Yeah, less speed, more weight and surface area. The trade off could very well be quite profitable, or not.

It's quite clear that bigger gloves result in less "powerful" punches. The extra weight of the larger gloves is basically negligible and considerably less than the typical heavyweight's fluctuations in weight from fight to fight. However, the extra padding means that the fist comes to a stop slower and the force of the punch is spread over a greater surface area.

I think the question of glove size is an important one and one that doesn't get enough attention on here.

[Absolutely!]

Originally Posted by rusak

It's quite clear that bigger gloves result in less "powerful" punches. The extra weight of the larger gloves is basically negligible and considerably less than the typical heavyweight's fluctuations in weight from fight to fight. However, the extra padding means that the fist comes to a stop slower and the force of the punch is spread over a greater surface area.

I think the question of glove size is an important one and one that doesn't get enough attention on here.

I think smaller gloves allow one to punch with more sharpness and pinpoint accuracy whilst heavier gloves force one to punch with more concussive force in order to do the corresponding amount of damage. A fighter in Louis's day could focus their power more into their fist and sneak shots in through smaller gaps in an opponent's defence. Fighters of the modern era have to power through their targets with brute force, hence the general increase in heavier and more muscular men dominating the game. They can also afford not to be as accurate as fighters of the past since the extra padding puts them at less risk of breaking their hand on a hard part of their opponent's noggin. Just my theory.

I wonder how many knockouts a fighter like Mayweather or Ward would have had back in the day.

[dyna]

Originally Posted by Absolutely!

I think smaller gloves allow one to punch with more sharpness and pinpoint accuracy whilst heavier gloves force one to punch with more concussive force in order to do the corresponding amount of damage. A fighter in Louis's day could focus their power more into their fist and sneak shots in through smaller gaps in an opponent's defence. Fighters of the modern era have to power through their targets with brute force, hence the general increase in heavier and more muscular men dominating the game. They can also afford not to be as accurate as fighters of the past since the extra padding puts them at less risk of breaking their hand on a hard part of their opponent's noggin. Just my theory.

I wonder how many knockouts a fighter like Mayweather or Ward would have had back in the day.

Mayweather has very good power, maybe more so than Manny...
But he also has very brittle hands.

The extra padding might be nice for him.

[rusak]

Originally Posted by Absolutely!

I think smaller gloves allow one to punch with more sharpness and pinpoint accuracy whilst heavier gloves force one to punch with more concussive force in order to do the corresponding amount of damage. A fighter in Louis's day could focus their power more into their fist and sneak shots in through smaller gaps in an opponent's defence. Fighters of the modern era have to power through their targets with brute force, hence the general increase in heavier and more muscular men dominating the game. They can also afford not to be as accurate as fighters of the past since the extra padding puts them at less risk of breaking their hand on a hard part of their opponent's noggin. Just my theory.

I wonder how many knockouts a fighter like Mayweather or Ward would have had back in the day.

The extra weight of the larger gloves in itself is negligible. One pound is 16 ounces. The typical heavyweight fluctuates more than that from fight to fight. The fact that the fist comes to a stop slower and that the force is spread over a greater area results in less damaging punches. I have no doubt that guys like Marciano and Louis would have significantly lower KO ratios if they fought in modern gloves. Or at the very least, their KOs would come later in fights.

[KuRuPT]

Since Seamus is voting for Rocky... that pretty much means it's a given he would win.. end thread now please...