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Old 01-07-2013, 12:48 PM   #31
Manassa
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Default Re: Should we rate Benny Leonard a little higher?

Well this one quickly turned to shit didn't it?
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:50 PM   #32
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Default Re: Should we rate Benny Leonard a little higher?

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Yup, Ali probably fought in the best heavyweight era of all time if we're talking quality.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:50 PM   #33
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Default Re: Should we rate Benny Leonard a little higher?

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Thanks. I think? I was raised on Bizzarro world. Over there Philadelphia was a sports town.
It was merely a sarcastic and lame attempt at humor....In seriousness, your one of my favorite posters.....but I am not sure that is anymore of compliment....And you can hassle with my wife and children but leave my city alone!!!!
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:50 PM   #34
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Default Re: Should we rate Benny Leonard a little higher?

Bottom top 10 for sure.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:52 PM   #35
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Default Re: Should we rate Benny Leonard a little higher?

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Little Red is easily one of the best posters on the forum. He's just a gay (as in happy, like) sarcasm whore. Behind all of his deceitful quips is the tree of boxing knowledge.
You learned that in a whole month on the forum??? Give him time, I am sure he will disappoint you, much as he has me and my city!
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:04 PM   #36
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Default Re: Should we rate Benny Leonard a little higher?

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Little Red is easily one of the best posters on the forum. He's just a gay (as in happy, like) sarcasm whore. Behind all of his deceitful quips is the tree of boxing knowledge.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:09 PM   #37
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Default Re: Should we rate Benny Leonard a little higher?

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I don't know a whole lot about Joe Gans so I'm not going to comment on him, but I'd reckon I know enough about B. Leonard and Duran to make an evaluation of their lightweight greatness.

The truth is, it doesn't matter that much where you put them. They can both be #1. I'm more inclined to put Leonard up there now, but maybe tomorrow it'll be Duran.
Maybe we should rate Leonard higher, maybe he is a top 5 fighter at the end of it all. I don't think so, though. He's a lower top 10 guy to me.

Also, maybe I'm ignorant or a shit-head or something, but I've never really rated Willie Pep as high as a guy like, say, Manassa would.
Pep seems to be underrated these days. He beat an enormous list of contenders (including some good lightweights) and went 135-1-1 before he lost to Sadler. What's up for debate is how much that plane crash affected him.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:09 PM   #38
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Default Re: Should we rate Benny Leonard a little higher?

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You learned that in a whole month on the forum??? Give him time, I am sure he will disappoint you, much as he has me and my city!
In a year.

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I'm an old **** according to some guy I'd never talked to on the forum as well, apparently.
Nah man, she won a game of BINGO. Yes, it's widely speculated that you're 59-years-old as well.

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Old 01-07-2013, 01:13 PM   #39
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Default Re: Should we rate Benny Leonard a little higher?

I also think Leonard over Duran at 135lbs is a pretty obvious choice going by records unless your criteria includes that you think Duran would have beaten him.

Anyone who hasn't looked at Leonard's record properly, should. From 1917 to 1924 he was easily on that Robinson/Pep/Armstrong level of dominance.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:17 PM   #40
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Default Re: Should we rate Benny Leonard a little higher?

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I'm probably just ignorant on the landscape of the day, then. Pretty astonishing what he did after the plane crash, though.
Nah not necessarily, you just subscribe to a different view. I just needed to briefly defend my ranking of him. I like that 135-1-1 (ten years) over quality opposition, it just does it for me.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:18 PM   #41
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Default Re: Should we rate Benny Leonard a little higher?

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Well, if I'm not an old ****, I'm certainly a stupid ****.
You're depressing me, dude.


Manassa,

When did Barney Ross get bumped out of your top ten, boss? I recall reading one of the better threads I've seen on ESB you started in his honor on why he belonged. It gave me a renewed interest in him, and I eventually bought into the thinking considering his ridiculous top end quality (while plenty of others do surpass him in sheer quantity). Now, he's no longer there.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:22 PM   #42
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Default Re: Should we rate Benny Leonard a little higher?

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You're depressing me, dude.


Manassa,

When did Barney Ross get bumped out of your top ten, boss? I recall reading one of the better threads I've seen on ESB you started in his honor on why he belonged. It gave me a renewed interest in him, and I eventually bought into the thinking considering his ridiculous top end quality (while plenty of others do surpass him in sheer quality). Now, he's no longer there.

You know full well who it was.

****ing Fitzsimmons and his fan boys

To be fair, era for era, Bob probably deserves it over Ross, and I sure as **** wasn't taking out Moore (don't get me started, that man was a marvel). Joe Gans is another one who just misses out; he and Ross stand equal outside the top ten.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:31 PM   #43
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Default Re: Should we rate Benny Leonard a little higher?

I asked myself this very question last month.

I think he is a good shout for number 1 LW. His dominance over a division full of great fighters is amazing.

P4p I've not settled on my names below 5 yet but I think he is gonna make my top 10 when I do a proper list again.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:32 PM   #44
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Default Re: Should we rate Benny Leonard a little higher?

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You know full well who it was.

****ing Fitzsimmons and his fan boys

To be fair, era for era, Bob probably deserves it over Ross, and I sure as **** wasn't taking out Moore (don't get me started, that man was a marvel). Joe Gans is another one who just misses out; he and Ross stand equal outside the top ten.


Yeah, the only way you can get rid of the pest that is Robert Fitzsimmons is by taking the Stonehands approach of only rating fighters post-1920. He details his reasoning in his Gods of War introduction, and I would say it's fairly sound - If that's how you prefer to do things.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:34 PM   #45
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Default Re: Should we rate Benny Leonard a little higher?

I think everyone rates Leonard in the top ten somewhere.

But to me he's #5 and knocking on the door of #4, Sam Langford. Still not sure what to do about that.
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