I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

[Fighting Fungus]

Originally Posted by dempsey1234

Persoli is the promoter, right? He is a promoter who is trying to keep boxing alive in Chicago. Promoters to stay in business have to make ends meet and by making the fighter buy his own fights is now getting to be more and more common. Is it fair? No it's not, think what options are available to the fighter? Think if Persoli, went under what would happen to Chicago boxing? Now if Persoli, had sellouts and SRO's then I would get in his face about it.
Bout the capping some trainers dont want to hear stuff, they want their 10%. A fighter, and most trainers will hate this, when a fighter reaches that level, and the 10% becomes 500k, well thats a diffferent story. The trainers cut is then negotiated. Both parties have to be fair to each other. Some trainers and S&C guys now are requiring a contract, which I wouldn't advise my guys to sign.
Pay rate depends on a lot of things, so there really is no set rate but figure a minimum of 5k for an 8rdr and a minimum of 7.5k sometimes as low as 6k.

Yes, pesoli is the promoter. There have been many other promoters such as Bobby Hitz (he is promoting in Indiana now) and quite a few others,but they dont seem to stay in business. A lot of them also have problems dealing with the Illinois commotion.

The biggest money maker fighter in Chicago right now is Andrew Fonfara. Has plenty of support from polish fans, I doubt he is buying his own fight!

[Fighting Fungus]

Originally Posted by dempsey1234

You have to remember this, Boxing is a business, if you are good and producing. In fact you dont have to be good, think about Chavez jr, a while ago he was a joke, Canelo was rocked by a lightweight. In boxing if you have charisma, that will overcome almost everything.
Let me ask you something that will make you see what charisma and good looks can do. Imagine if Oscar DeLa Hoya, looked like Jose Luis Castillo, and Castillo had Oscar's skill, style and power? There wouldn't be a Goldenboy, period. Boxing is alot like showbiz, the fighter has to market himself, you want to get paid then bring something to the table besides your ability.
No you couldn't live the rest of your life on what you would make on 4 HBO appearances. If you are at that level it is better to be on the "A" side, the "B" side usually gets paid less and is considered the opponent.
Dibella gets paid as a promoter, he in turn pays the fighters out of that money. HBO will pay X dollars for a particular fight to the promoter, the promoter, negotiates with fighters and try to keep as much for himself as the fighter, if he is smart will try to get as much as they can, if each just remembers that each have to eat.
No promoter is honest or dishonest, going in, it's after they deal with you that first time will tell them if you are a newbie or someone who knows his shit, then it becomes a case who is going to win the negotiating war.
Overall I would say, US pays higher for the big fights, Germany and England pay more than the going rate if they bring someone in, like from the US.

This is a great point about marketability in fighters. Look at guys like Mickey Ward and Arturo Gatti. They were good fighters but if they were black they would have been lucky to make 1/3 of what they made in there career. If Andre ward was a white Irish men he would make double the money he is making!

[Thracian]

interesting points, thx.

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by Fighting Fungus

This is a great point about marketability in fighters. Look at guys like Mickey Ward and Arturo Gatti. They were good fighters but if they were black they would have been lucky to make 1/3 of what they made in there career. If Andre ward was a white Irish men he would make double the money he is making!

The problem isn't racism is who buys tickets, next time you go to a fight see who is buying the tickets, chances are they are white, hispanic and then black. Even among hispanic's it's different, the biggest ticket sellers are Mexican's, and Puerto Rican. Dominican's, Cuban's dont seem to support their guys. Boxing is a business the only color they see is green. Ward does have support in his hometown. Both M. Ward and Gatti put together didn't make anywhere near what Mayweather makes. So it really depends on the guy.

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by Fighting Fungus

Yes, pesoli is the promoter. There have been many other promoters such as Bobby Hitz (he is promoting in Indiana now) and quite a few others,but they dont seem to stay in business. A lot of them also have problems dealing with the Illinois commotion.

The biggest money maker fighter in Chicago right now is Andrew Fonfara. Has plenty of support from polish fans, I doubt he is buying his own fight!

He may not be buying his own fights but if he's smart he should be getting a piece of the gate.

[Jdsm]

Originally Posted by Scorpion

Wait, wtf how is that possible?
I thought fighters made at least 50% of the purse?

Anyways, Dempsey i was just wondering is it possible for a fighter with no experience to self manage himself?

Like i know a lot of fighters do that (Winky Wright for example), but i`m guessing you would need a certain amount of experience before doing that.

Finally, how different are the responsibilities of the manager and promoter? Is it complicated being both?

Which is easier in your opinion.

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Sad, but worth watching.

[viru§™]

Originally Posted by Jdsm

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Sad, but worth watching.

How the fuck is he so cool after being fucked over for so much money? 7500 to 15000 out of a 1.3 million dollar payday?! 1.3 mil out of 25 million?!

Whoever done that to him deserves to go to prison. Fucking disgrace.

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by Jdsm

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Sad, but worth watching.

Thanks for posting, it really is sad.

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by viru§™

How the fuck is he so cool after being fucked over for so much money? 7500 to 15000 out of a 1.3 million dollar payday?! 1.3 mil out of 25 million?!

Whoever done that to him deserves to go to prison. Fucking disgrace.

There is a long list of Buster Douglas's out there, fighters usually trust too much and because they do they get taken. In every contract I have ever seen it says clearly, you have the right to have a lawyer look at the contract and deal. The sad thing is that they don't. Douglas I believe had a newbie manager who didn't understand the business.

[viru§™]

Originally Posted by dempsey1234

There is a long list of Buster Douglas's out there, fighters usually trust too much and because they do they get taken. In every contract I have ever seen it says clearly, you have the right to have a lawyer look at the contract and deal. The sad thing is that they don't. Douglas I believe had a newbie manager who didn't understand the business.

Even so, how can somebody get a pay day of 1.3 mil and be content with maybe 15k? It's insane.

He's one naive guy that's for sure.

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by viru§™

Even so, how can somebody get a pay day of 1.3 mil and be content with maybe 15k? It's insane.

He's one naive guy that's for sure.

It's sad, it is insane but it happens. Ck out an article by Tom Hauser entitled "Why?", it's on secondsout.com. Click on Tom Hauser columns, also ck out John Duddy articles by Tom Hauser on the same site.
In fact look over some of the other articles by Hauser, he goes into detail how these fighters get taken.

[ezzard_charles]

What sort of taxes do overseas fighters pay? There has been alot of confusion in that area, do they pay taxes in the countries that they are fighting in or in their own country? (A while back there was some rumour going around that people were trying to make manny pacquiao a US citizen so he had to pay US tax. Also people say that Manny only trained in the US for a short while to avoid US taxes)
Are they taxed at the standard rate as other wage/salary earners, or are they taxed at a different rate?
Same with fighters in their own country, do they pay standard tax rates or do they pay different rates?

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by ezzard_charles

What sort of taxes do overseas fighters pay? There has been alot of confusion in that area, do they pay taxes in the countries that they are fighting in or in their own country? (A while back there was some rumour going around that people were trying to make manny pacquiao a US citizen so he had to pay US tax. Also people say that Manny only trained in the US for a short while to avoid US taxes)
Are they taxed at the standard rate as other wage/salary earners, or are they taxed at a different rate?
Same with fighters in their own country, do they pay standard tax rates or do they pay different rates?

In the US, a fighter from overseas or Mexico gets clipped for 30% and is taken out of the purse before the fighter gets his. Let's say the purse is 1000, the taxman comes along and grabs 300, leaving the fighter with 700, out of which the fighter has to pay 100 to the trainer, leaving him with 600. The fighter still has to pay the taxes on that income to his home country. In the US they tax you based on income. A guy like Floyd pays taxes at a higher rate.

[ezzard_charles]

Originally Posted by dempsey1234

In the US, a fighter from overseas or Mexico gets clipped for 30% and is taken out of the purse before the fighter gets his. Let's say the purse is 1000, the taxman comes along and grabs 300, leaving the fighter with 700, out of which the fighter has to pay 100 to the trainer, leaving him with 600. The fighter still has to pay the taxes on that income to his home country. In the US they tax you based on income. A guy like Floyd pays taxes at a higher rate.

So do US fighters pay an additional tax rate after the 30% based on their income? Is that 30% the flat rate for all boxers?

[Thracian]

Is there anyway around this tax grab? Like if the money went to the fighter's manager through a different channel/label, like a consulting fee?