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Old 01-08-2013, 06:35 AM   #16
Primate
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Default Re: Is the takedown the most lethal thing ever?

nevermind

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Old 01-08-2013, 10:30 AM   #17
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Default Re: Is the takedown the most lethal thing ever?

It can be a lethal thing, but honestly probably not the greatest thing in a street fight. 2 reasons I can think of:
1) If your fighting more than one guy, or even if your fighting one and his buddies are there and you get the best of him... Being on the ground, breaking somebodies arm, etc isn't the place to be.
2) No matter how much wrestling skill you got I'm willing to bet theres somebody out there that is way to big and strong for you to handle (with or without wrestling skills themselves). This is when being able to punch, kick, elbow, and MOVE comes in handy. Nobodies face is made to get smashed by your fist, punched/ kneed in the gut, etc.

I trained boxing for years, a little JKD and also power lift. I'm about 5'6, 170. I trained at an MMA gym for a few months with guys who do cage fighting... Most guys around my weight, or slightly smaller. I know it's a personal experience with only 1 gym, and a select few guys, but none of them could take me down without me tiring first. I knew crap about wrestling as well (except watching WWE when I was little lol). I'm sure theres guys smaller than me that could take me down quite easy, but raw strength and knowing a little about how to use it can go a long way.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:48 AM   #18
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Default Re: Is the takedown the most lethal thing ever?

I consider myself a pretty tasty MT striker, but just the thought of the ground turns me green. I'm terrified of a novice ground guy getting anywhere near me!

Don't know if ground guys feel the same way about strikers, but would interested to know.

Last edited by boranbkk; 01-08-2013 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:21 PM   #19
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Default Re: Is the takedown the most lethal thing ever?

If everyone's nekked, the takedown is the most effective ***ual maneuver in all of combat sports, whether you use it on a male or a female. That's the beauty of it.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:24 PM   #20
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Default Re: Is the takedown the most lethal thing ever?

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Originally Posted by boranbkk View Post
I consider myself a pretty tasty MT striker, but just the thought of the ground turns me green. I'm terrified of a novice ground guy getting anywhere near me!

Don't know if ground guys feel the same way about strikers, but would interested to know.
I'm interested in hearing some feedback in regard to this as well.

I will say, the beautiful thing (IMO at least) about wrestling is its one of the few martial arts you can become truly world class without any natural talent. But rather pure unadulterated blood, sweat, and tears.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:22 PM   #21
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Default Re: Is the takedown the most lethal thing ever?

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Originally Posted by the_bigunit View Post
I'm interested in hearing some feedback in regard to this as well.

I will say, the beautiful thing (IMO at least) about wrestling is its one of the few martial arts you can become truly world class without any natural talent. But rather pure unadulterated blood, sweat, and tears.

Pray tell how you would be a good wrestler without strength, balance, understanding transitions and so on.


Something like BJJ is less physically inclined but you need a lot of awareness to progress to the upper levels.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:27 PM   #22
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Default Re: Is the takedown the most lethal thing ever?

I was obviously referring to the work one must put into to obtain those attributes -- especially strength.

Any other martial art -- you're gonna need some God-given speed, instincts, maybe even natural KO power.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:52 PM   #23
Synthetic Decay
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Default Re: Is the takedown the most lethal thing ever?

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Originally Posted by the_bigunit View Post
I was obviously referring to the work one must put into to obtain those attributes -- especially strength.

Any other martial art -- you're gonna need some God-given speed, instincts, maybe even natural KO power.

You can only work on any given attribute so much, the ceiling is always dictated by natural aptitude.

Instincts, speed, would be applicable to all martial arts, although there are of course exceptions where superior timing, craft have triumphed over speed, athleticism.

You seem to think that striking is inherently more based on natural attributes than grappling, i just think that's a weird perspective. It's individual. Some fighters never develop decent takedown defence, some guys never develop any defensive awareness/movement standing. Hence why you see so few rounded fighters.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:44 PM   #24
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Default Re: Is the takedown the most lethal thing ever?

MMA and Folkstyle wrestling are two almost completely different worlds. Based on numerous factors that make MMA so diverse in the first place. But while we're on it. Look at the world of MMA and the fighters who don't possess the most talent and found some form of success through hardwork and a limited skillset: Rick Story, Jon Fitch, Tim Boetsch, Dan Miller, Tim Kennedy, Clay Guida. You can't do that with a striking skillset.

Point being: If you want to stand out -- with just striking: it's going to have to be unbelievable great -- with grappling: not so much.

But I really meant no offense. To each his own.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:49 PM   #25
Synthetic Decay
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Default Re: Is the takedown the most lethal thing ever?

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Originally Posted by the_bigunit View Post
MMA and Folkstyle wrestling are two almost completely different worlds. Based on numerous factors that make MMA so diverse in the first place. But while we're on it. Look at the world of MMA and the fighters who don't possess the most talent and found some form of success through hardwork and a limited skillset: Rick Story, Jon Fitch, Tim Boetsch, Dan Miller, Tim Kennedy, Clay Guida. You can't do that with a striking skillset.

But I really meant no offense. To each his own.


I wasn't offended at all, i started striking well before grappling and was always more of a fan of striking sports growing up.

I think it depends and it's hard to define. Take a Foreman or a Marciano, historically. Or Froch, Mayorga, more recently, hardly silky operators but it works for them.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:03 PM   #26
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Default Re: Is the takedown the most lethal thing ever?

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I wasn't offended at all, i started striking well before grappling and was always more of a fan of striking sports growing up.

I think it depends and it's hard to define. Take a Foreman or a Marciano, historically. Or Froch, Mayorga, more recently, hardly silky operators but it works for them.
I agree. I think it also says something it's hard to find an example outside of heavyweights. But Froch and Moyorga are good ones. Kudos.
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