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Old 01-08-2013, 02:05 PM   #1366
SkillspayBills
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Yeah, mate. They're probabily using it for only speed and sharpness. Noticed he's always punching in combos with them, and not as hard. They may also create a better feeling than when the mitts are directly on someones hands. The danger seems to be that the trainer is pretty much coming to hit the fighters fists with them. As you say though, if the fighter/trainer knows whats going on and why he's using them, then it's all good. The problem would be if they're being used by someone who wasn't a seasoned pro and hadn't had his punching technique down pat. That's why i'm not always for starting kids on pads straight off.
Agree totally Slip.

I saw your thread only other day about your training, I don't really venture much into training thread so missed it until i scrolled down.

How's it going?. Nice to see you went for it . I agree about the pads i don't think it's be all and end for kids. There's a lot of other aspects beginners miss out on such as balance, footwork and punch form among other things.

Think many people take forgranted the level of padwork and that kids on first night ever have enough trouble working out right from left let alone work out what pad to hit and how. Lot of things go through a kids mind in those early sessions.

Edit: Good luck btw mate . Making a difference .
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:35 PM   #1367
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Agree totally Slip.

I saw your thread only other day about your training, I don't really venture much into training thread so missed it until i scrolled down.

How's it going?. Nice to see you went for it . I agree about the pads i don't think it's be all and end for kids. There's a lot of other aspects beginners miss out on such as balance, footwork and punch form among other things.

Think many people take forgranted the level of padwork and that kids on first night ever have enough trouble working out right from left let alone work out what pad to hit and how. Lot of things go through a kids mind in those early sessions.

Edit: Good luck btw mate . Making a difference .
Thanks, bro. I hope i can make a positive impact.

It's going well. I was just dedicating a bit more time to it, always helped out for a couple nights. Tbh i'm finding it hard to get the time. What with family, work and other commitments, but we've got some great people in that gym, doing some awesome work and recently there's been a big uptake with lots of kids coming in, and a few girls too. The gym has been refurnished, so there more space and new equip.

With kids and the pads. I've seen guys taking them on there far too early. I like to teach them the basics, over and over and over. Make sure they know what they're doing before taking them on the pads. I believe repetition is the key to learning. I have them basically walking from one end to the other, in the right stance, pivoting properly on the turn, throwing punches correctly as they move. Basically, hands up. Keep feet moving properly, by stepping the right way and not foot over foot, and then moving the head.

With the pads, i think at an early stage, throwing as few punches as possible is the way to go. Combinations are more advanced and trying to throw combos early might cause them to get a few punches wrong in terms of the technique of it. I think before going on the pads a kids moves should be automatic already. They should have an understanding of what the counters are for every punch.

I think a fighter should fellow the trainer as he moves around the ring, if moving forward is what they're working on, and vice versa. The trainer should lift his right or left hand for just a second before putting it down again. As soon as his glove pops up, the fighter should jab it immediately. Fight simulation should be the objective, and reflexes to always be ready for throwing a jab and power punch as they move around the ring, keeping proper distance with the trainer. Not tying to look flash.

Then move on to things like, jab, right hand. Blocking the jab and countering back. 1, 2 and than slipping the counter hook etc.

Oh and you've just reminded me of that thread. Haven't even looked at much since starting it.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:38 PM   #1368
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Nice stuff Slip .

Repetition is the mother of all learning .
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:50 PM   #1369
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You getting into it too, bro? We need some of that knowledge to be passed down, SPB. Share that knowledge and start teaching.

Edit: I forgot, you still have intentions of maybe going pro yourself sometime, right?
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:59 PM   #1370
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Do you have any boxing experience Slip? I know you said you'd started coaching, just wondering if you boxed before?

I'd like to get in to a bit coaching, I'd like to think I've got some useful contributions to make; I'm not Manny Steward's white brother, but I've had a couple of mates that box competitively say that they enjoy working 1v1 with me because of little technical things I'll mention.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:59 PM   #1371
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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You getting into it too, bro? We need some of that knowledge to be passed down, SPB. Share that knowledge and start teaching.

Edit: I forgot, you still have intentions of maybe going pro yourself sometime, right?
Thanks Slip , I still have that desire to become a pro. But always said and espicially with a sport like boxing you got to do it right, proper and do yourself justice. I may go for it, got a bit on at the moment so it's hard to find a chance to do it but may have a fight or two. See what happens..

But i do love Boxing, I coach football but i find myself every day thinking boxing, talking it and wanting to teach boxing. I've taken a lad one on one on training to defend himself from bullies a few years back and teaching missus to hold hands up as well. I think someday in next 5-10 years i will head into a gym and go for it. I'm still learning now so hopefully in these years i can gain more knowledge and develop. I have a good start by knowing coaching techniques and understanding learning but want to develop a philosophy of coaching boxing. I always believe if there's no philosophy then your work doesn't have foundation and can't grow.

I like one on one aspect of boxing as well, mentoring people. With football you often talk to groups. Hard to get one on one with someone and talk to them on a level and just educate them on what they need to do.

What you guys do is a great service to the kids. Greatest sport in world and volunteers are a god send. Not many nowadays want to offer time for free.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:30 PM   #1372
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Anytime ur in the Manchester area ur welcome to do some technical work at my gym m8!
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:37 PM   #1373
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

I was in my local DW gym and a couple of Asian kids were messing about, play fighting really.

One of them planted his feet and threw one by accident, knocked his mate spark out.

Paramedics had to come
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:01 PM   #1374
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Slip you got yourself a job in Manchester with Arnie by looks . The power of ESB or Boxingforum24. Nah always be ESB to me .
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:57 AM   #1375
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Do you have any boxing experience Slip? I know you said you'd started coaching, just wondering if you boxed before?

I'd like to get in to a bit coaching, I'd like to think I've got some useful contributions to make; I'm not Manny Steward's white brother, but I've had a couple of mates that box competitively say that they enjoy working 1v1 with me because of little technical things I'll mention.
My dad took me to the gym at an early age. Boxed as an amatuer a few times, but nothing beyond that. Sparred countless rounds and still do, always loved sparring. But the thought/option of turning pro never really came up, fate took me in a different direction. I've studied, observed, got in the ring and tried to improve my boxing eyes.

You definitely know your stuff, mate. If you think you're ready, go for it and help out. The more good people teaching boxing the better.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:59 AM   #1376
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

I still can't throw a left hook for toffee, feels really un-natural hitting the bag with one, unless it's a body shot - which I throw with my palms facing upwards.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:02 AM   #1377
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@ SPB. Thanks, bro.

It's never too late. You've seen some of the fighters who went pro late and achieved great things. It's funny because i really believe in fate and things happening for a reason. I think if someone is 'meant' to do something they will eventually find it, or it'll find them. I heard Peter Quillin the other day talking about how the kids he grew up with were more talented than him, he didn't even come close to them. But he's now a elite pro and the other are either dead, in prison, or just getting on with life. I hear the same thing from some footballers too. I heard Zlatan talking about how the area he grew up in had so many more gifted players than him.

People will say it comes down to dedication, focus and staying away from distractions, which is all true, but sometimes even with all those things fate takes it out of our hands.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:04 AM   #1378
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Slip you got yourself a job in Manchester with Arnie by looks . The power of ESB or Boxingforum24. Nah always be ESB to me .
Lol.

Arnie, if that was addressed to me. It would be a pleasure and an honour.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:13 AM   #1379
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Going to shamelessly bump one of my older posts from this thread with a few little changes. A lot of people are fascinated with this style:

"The 'philly shell' is quite a complex style with so many subtleties and variations that it's very hard to break down. It is often refered to as the 'shoulder roll defense' because the shoulder roll is one of the defensive skills that is incorporated by most boxers that use this style; however the shoulder roll is just that, one defensive skill that fits particularly well in to this style.

Since most of the interest in this style is from a defensive stand point, I will start with the defensive benefits of using the philly shell. The first defensive skill I'll talk about is the shoulder roll. The shoulder roll is very effective for defending against the orthodox right hand, specifically the straight right. Not only does it ensure that the chin is well protected from the shot, but if executed effectively, it sets up clean counterpunching opportunities.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAC6o9420fc[/ame]

3:10 (3:17 for slow motion) shows perfect execution of the shoulder roll by Mayweather. Not only does he protect his chin and deflect the shot away with the shoulder, he comes back with a nice short shot of his own, which Mosley is wide open for. With the shoulder roll, the orthodox fighter will turn his shoulders clockwise as the punch is anticipated and as this is done, it also takes the right hand out of the opponent's sight, which makes it a lot harder for them to defend against a counter that they've already been opened up for.

Further examples of the shoulder roll - counter right hand being executed:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDrFQtbM2rc[/ame]

Another defensive benefit of the philly shell is that when a fighter is backed up against the ropes, because of the hand position, they don't restrict their own vision and this allows them to parry, slip, roll and counter against punches.

A few examples of this:

8:25
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl50iVr25R8[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQjBDsHOpv4[/ame]

Due to the hands are held in the philly shell, so many defensive moves can be executed with minimal effort and energy expendature.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqOJp9Wmayo[/ame]

At around 1:45 Floyd Mayweather demonstrates how with very, very small movements shots can be blocked and present huge counter opportunities.

Another huge benefits is how easily the weight can be transferred from defensive-to-offensive transitions. If you look at the previous examples, you will notice that often fighters when rolling the right hand, they will transfer the weight more on to their back foot, which is beneficial for the actual counterpunch itself. Also note what happens to the hips when a fighter executes the shoulder roll and how that is going to add to the biomechanical advantage when counter punching.

One of the most notorious limitations of this style from a defensive point of view is when facing a southpaw, it can leave you very vulnerable to the straight left hand.

Since there is so much involved in this style, I'll make another post with the offensive benefits and if anybody wants me to try and explain further any defensive specifics, just ask. I'm not great at writing out long break downs"

Hope people enjoyed that and were able to take something from it.

Either tonight or over the next few days I think I'll give me take on the importance of changing tempo.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:57 PM   #1380
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Originally Posted by Beeston Brawler View Post
I was in my local DW gym and a couple of Asian kids were messing about, play fighting really.

One of them planted his feet and threw one by accident, knocked his mate spark out.

Paramedics had to come
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