Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Australian Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-02-2013, 02:33 AM   #121
Crusher
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,071
vCash: 500
Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
..ol' tiger..I really think you were blessed mate to have your brother there and be privilaged to be guided by a boxing immortal like Ambrose Palmer..and of course to share a gym with a all time great like Johnny Famechon..seriously..as i've said a few times before..you deadset have to write your own boxing instruction book..I know from some of the posts that you've put up over the years that your also a brilliant wordsmith...you can't take all your knowledge to the grave mate..i reckon you'd be on a winner..

..and while on books..another brilliant source of knowledge for me was Bruce Lee's..'The Tao of Jeet-Kun-Do'..he goes into much detail about blocks,slips and parries..counter punching and counter counter punching...every base is covered in great detail..
..goin' back before the internet age..this was one of the most useful books i'd come across..
X2 about him writing A boxing Manuel.
On a side note Bruce Lee won a light weight golden gloves title did he not?
Crusher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-02-2013, 03:16 PM   #122
atigerofold
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Respect-ville.
Posts: 311
vCash: 1000
Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Thanks fellows, for your endorsement, and I hope all of you have a great year this year. I am hoping to publish my dad's story = "Fight Laurie Fight", sometime in the next six months....then, I might just write that manual. It sounds a very good thing to do, for people in the sport, or people teaching the sport. I have written about how I felt about being in sport back in 2005 (reminiscing about my entry and exit to boxing, and some of the great people that mentored me, in a few short stories for forums; it might be time to consolidate these also, and leave my stamp before I eventually check out.
.................................................................................................... ...........................................

I thought I would discuss my favourite punch, the right counter (variable)....again the timing factor is critical; and if your opponent throws out those tokenry, fairyfloss left jabs, and leaves his chin unprotected, or even slightly positions his right hand held over his right temple, then this right counter punch is looking good for you.

You bounce up to the zone, expecting and timing yourself for a lightening spring back from his delivered left lead ; you see the left arm about to jab out, and by pushing back from your left (forward) foot, your torso moves back, and you slightly move your right foot back, to allow the opponents left jab to fall short. You rapidly spring forward leveraging an explosive right cross from your back foot (ball of the right foot) which must travel faster than his retracting left hand. (often this retracting left hand lead is dropped lower in retreat, allowing your right cross to travel freely and strike)

This is a classic punch, full of unexpected shock and horror to its receiver. It needs to be practiced for hours and hours of free playing time, in order to perfect it. It is good if you can get some collaboration with a gym mate to play the cat and mouse on this punch; open handed practise so you dont knock each other out(dont poke each other in the eye); the speed of delivery is critical....the play practise needs to focus on lightening speed of the feet, your springback to trigger the right, back-foot leverage, and the rapid right cross; the play practise does not need to demonstrate the massive impact of your right cross, you can actually pull your right counter up.....bro and me, would practise it perfectly by slapping or tapping with right cross, hitting with open hand to the top of the forehead (rapid cleanly delivered, tap on the head) When mastered, the punch can be practised on the bag, by pushing and swinging the bag back, and the spring back and right cross delivered by anticipated imagination of left coming from the bag....(think it through and deliver it by perfect spring back)

There is a big mistake you can make with this punch - this is to leave your head up in the air......as you spring back your head/chin needs to be tucked into your chest, and your left hand is held close to the left side of your forehead. (if you are a trainer, you need to highlight this mistake time and time again) Do not telecast the message that you are going to do this counter ......often, if you are overdoing this punch (repeatedly), an opponent can easily baulk you with his half- left jab and right cross you; hence the need for the tucked in chin, and left hand to be positioned up high and close to the left side of the forehead.

I have seen so many people dropped or knocked right out with a perfectly timed right counter punch. If you hit an opponent once with this punch, it certainly tends to pull him up, and consider his fate during the whole fight. These types of clean, designed counter punches seem to score well from a referee; not that you are out to please them....but they do show mastery of the sport, which is what it is all about.

Cheers fellows, would like to hear your take on right counters......

Last edited by atigerofold; 01-02-2013 at 04:04 PM.
atigerofold is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 03:40 PM   #123
darkhorse
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,525
vCash: 500
Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Quote:
Originally Posted by atigerofold View Post
.................................................................................................... ...........................................

I thought I would discuss my favourite punch, the right counter (variable)....again the timing factor is critical; and if your opponent throws out those tokenry, fairyfloss left jabs, and leaves his chin unprotected, or even slightly positions his right hand held over his right temple, then this right counter punch is looking good for you.

You bounce up to the zone, expecting and timing yourself for a lightening spring back from his delivered left lead ; you see the left arm about to jab out, and by pushing back from your left (forward) foot, your torso moves back, and you slightly move your right foot back, to allow the opponents left jab to fall short. You rapidly spring forward leveraging an explosive right cross from your back foot (ball of the right foot) which must travel faster than his retracting left hand. (often this retracting left hand lead is dropped lower in retreat, allowing your right cross to travel freely and strike)

This is a classic punch, full of unexpected shock and horror to its receiver. It needs to be practiced for hours and hours of free playing time, in order to perfect it. It is good if you can get some collaboration with a gym mate to play the cat and mouse on this punch; open handed practise so you dont knock each other out(dont poke each other in the eye); the speed of delivery is critical....the play practise needs to focus on lightening speed of the feet, your springback to trigger the right, back-foot leverage, and the rapid right cross; the play practise does not need to demonstrate the massive impact of your right cross, you can actually pull your right counter up.....bro and me, would practise it perfectly by slapping or tapping with right cross, hitting with open hand to the top of the forehead (rapid cleanly delivered, tap on the head) When mastered, the punch can be practised on the bag, by pushing and swinging the bag back, and the spring back and right cross delivered by anticipated imagination of left coming from the bag....(think it through and deliver it by perfect spring back)

There is a big mistake you can make with this punch - this is to leave your head up in the air......as you spring back your head/chin needs to be tucked into your chest, and your left hand is held close to the left side of your forehead. (if you are a trainer, you need to highlight this mistake time and time again) Do not telecast the message that you are going to do this counter ......often, if you are overdoing this punch (repeatedly), an opponent can easily baulk you with his half- left jab and right cross you; hence the need for the tucked in chin, and left hand to be positioned up high and close to the left side of the forehead.

I have seen so many people dropped or knocked right out with a perfectly timed right counter punch. If you hit an opponent once with this punch, it certainly tends to pull him up, and consider his fate during the whole fight. These types of clean, designed counter punches seem to score well from a referee; not that you are out to please them....but they do show mastery of the sport, which is what it is all about.

Cheers fellows, would like to hear your take on right counters......
..you raise some good points there mate..pretty much covering everything perfectly..like tucking your chin in behind the shoulder as you throw and snap back the right..
..I like how you mentioned the spring back from the left lead...to me this is everything..keeping that weight on the front foot..staying outside your opponents jab..just waiting for that lazy one so you can pounce..
..this is another one that i learned of my mate Junior Thompson..but he'd tend to catch the jab with his own left before countering with the right...catch/pass is what he called it..
..plus he always had emphasis on the front foot and would occasionally do a little hop back..just to balance up and break the rythym..
..the best exponent I could find back in the day was Ken Buchanan..he had that perfect boxing style..
darkhorse is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 06:17 PM   #124
Crusher
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,071
vCash: 500
Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

My personal favorite is rolling the right hand. Roberto Duran was the best at it.a fighter anticipates the right hand let's it come to him when it touches his face he rolls his head with the punch taking the sting off it and counters with his own right hand. A lot of the old timers used this counter technique. Only the very experience should tryit
Quote:
Originally Posted by atigerofold View Post
Thanks fellows, for your endorsement, and I hope all of you have a great year this year. I am hoping to publish my dad's story = "Fight Laurie Fight", sometime in the next six months....then, I might just write that manual. It sounds a very good thing to do, for people in the sport, or people teaching the sport. I have written about how I felt about being in sport back in 2005 (reminiscing about my entry and exit to boxing, and some of the great people that mentored me, in a few short stories for forums; it might be time to consolidate these also, and leave my stamp before I eventually check out.
.................................................................................................... ...........................................

I thought I would discuss my favourite punch, the right counter (variable)....again the timing factor is critical; and if your opponent throws out those tokenry, fairyfloss left jabs, and leaves his chin unprotected, or even slightly positions his right hand held over his right temple, then this right counter punch is looking good for you.

You bounce up to the zone, expecting and timing yourself for a lightening spring back from his delivered left lead ; you see the left arm about to jab out, and by pushing back from your left (forward) foot, your torso moves back, and you slightly move your right foot back, to allow the opponents left jab to fall short. You rapidly spring forward leveraging an explosive right cross from your back foot (ball of the right foot) which must travel faster than his retracting left hand. (often this retracting left hand lead is dropped lower in retreat, allowing your right cross to travel freely and strike)

This is a classic punch, full of unexpected shock and horror to its receiver. It needs to be practiced for hours and hours of free playing time, in order to perfect it. It is good if you can get some collaboration with a gym mate to play the cat and mouse on this punch; open handed practise so you dont knock each other out(dont poke each other in the eye); the speed of delivery is critical....the play practise needs to focus on lightening speed of the feet, your springback to trigger the right, back-foot leverage, and the rapid right cross; the play practise does not need to demonstrate the massive impact of your right cross, you can actually pull your right counter up.....bro and me, would practise it perfectly by slapping or tapping with right cross, hitting with open hand to the top of the forehead (rapid cleanly delivered, tap on the head) When mastered, the punch can be practised on the bag, by pushing and swinging the bag back, and the spring back and right cross delivered by anticipated imagination of left coming from the bag....(think it through and deliver it by perfect spring back)

There is a big mistake you can make with this punch - this is to leave your head up in the air......as you spring back your head/chin needs to be tucked into your chest, and your left hand is held close to the left side of your forehead. (if you are a trainer, you need to highlight this mistake time and time again) Do not telecast the message that you are going to do this counter ......often, if you are overdoing this punch (repeatedly), an opponent can easily baulk you with his half- left jab and right cross you; hence the need for the tucked in chin, and left hand to be positioned up high and close to the left side of the forehead.

I have seen so many people dropped or knocked right out with a perfectly timed right counter punch. If you hit an opponent once with this punch, it certainly tends to pull him up, and consider his fate during the whole fight. These types of clean, designed counter punches seem to score well from a referee; not that you are out to please them....but they do show mastery of the sport, which is what it is all about.

Cheers fellows, would like to hear your take on right counters......
Crusher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 06:49 PM   #125
atigerofold
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Respect-ville.
Posts: 311
vCash: 1000
Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Jeeze, that sounds a dangerous punch Crusher, but I can understand how some boxers of the calibre of Duran, could pull it off........I wonder how many right hands he wore heavily, in order to become competent at the roll......he had a way of wearing a few to give a few Duran; he was one of the greatest fighters of all time....
...................

I was thinking about this Method application....I think that there are several layers in ways of teaching it to kids and existing boxers....

Kids....quickly start with their stance and correct it quickly....then teach them how to travel forward and back and to the left and right. Then get them throwing the left and right and a hook at you, which you catch (on your gloves). Then introduce their catching of your punches on its own, for the rest of a round. Then introduce the ducking over the next round..... Let em duck the left hook four or five times as you swing it....then four or five times, let em get under your right cross.....then let them shift forward to the left, and then the right as they slip your jab..... The more you go through this three round drill with them, the quicker they arrive at the higher standards. The better they get. Hey, and these drills never stop. and as they get more skillful, your intensity as a trainer also increases........even if they become a World Title Holder, these drills continue each day.

With current boxers, I immediately introduce the catching and ducking techniques, and also the leaps back and away from my attacks. After two rounds of catching and ducking, exchange left jabs - continually demonstating coverage of the chin and diaphram. Then I work on defensive counter punches. (right counter, right cross inside your left hook at them, right tombollo over your left lead, their right cross caught on your high held right glove) It all works well, is authentic and relevant to the real ring regime.

As they develop these methods, it is great to see that what you have taught them, is quickly repeated and applied by them in their sparring....if they want to do this.......Being able to catch or duck incoming is so important in confidence building....no one needs to get a hiding to learn skillful and effective boxing.

Last edited by atigerofold; 01-07-2013 at 07:12 PM.
atigerofold is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 01:26 AM   #126
Crusher
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,071
vCash: 500
Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Quote:
Originally Posted by atigerofold View Post
Jeeze, that sounds a dangerous punch Crusher, but I can understand how some boxers of the calibre of Duran, could pull it off........I wonder how many right hands he wore heavily, in order to become competent at the roll......he had a way of wearing a few to give a few Duran; he was one of the greatest fighters of all time....
...................

I was thinking about this Method application....I think that there are several layers in ways of teaching it to kids and existing boxers....

Kids....quickly start with their stance and correct it quickly....then teach them how to travel forward and back and to the left and right. Then get them throwing the left and right and a hook at you, which you catch (on your gloves). Then introduce their catching of your punches on its own, for the rest of a round. Then introduce the ducking over the next round..... Let em duck the left hook four or five times as you swing it....then four or five times, let em get under your right cross.....then let them shift forward to the left, and then the right as they slip your jab..... The more you go through this three round drill with them, the quicker they arrive at the higher standards. The better they get. Hey, and these drills never stop. and as they get more skillful, your intensity as a trainer also increases........even if they become a World Title Holder, these drills continue each day.

With current boxers, I immediately introduce the catching and ducking techniques, and also the leaps back and away from my attacks. After two rounds of catching and ducking, exchange left jabs - continually demonstating coverage of the chin and diaphram. Then I work on defensive counter punches. (right counter, right cross inside your left hook at them, right tombollo over your left lead, their right cross caught on your high held right glove) It all works well, is authentic and relevant to the real ring regime.

As they develop these methods, it is great to see that what you have taught them, is quickly repeated and applied by them in their sparring....if they want to do this.......Being able to catch or duck incoming is so important in confidence building....no one needs to get a hiding to learn skillful and effective boxing.
Crusher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 04:33 PM   #127
atigerofold
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Respect-ville.
Posts: 311
vCash: 1000
Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Boxers must have an extremely high order skills set. How do they gain this perfection ?

The trainer can assist in slowly breaking down the perfect practice which is necessary to identify the system or technique, but the boxer needs to practice it in real time and to practice and test it against real opposition.

Practice by high level sparring ("taking few prisoners") is necessary to perfect and bring into place the new techniques that are learnt.

High level (competitive) sparring is not a thing that you can just click your fingers and instantly have. Having a gym that has a number of competitive boxers is so necessary for boxers being able to practice moves and techniques (and quality improve); losing in the (real) professional ring is never a good learning factor in the sport of boxing.....it is not like Tennis, where you can often learn a lot by losing. Losing in boxing is usually the way to a short career or early retirement.

The benefit of being able to go to a well populated boxing gym, where good sparring is provided and managed fairly might be an enigma for some.
atigerofold is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 11:07 AM   #128
darkhorse
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,525
vCash: 500
Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Quote:
Originally Posted by atigerofold View Post
Boxers must have an extremely high order skills set. How do they gain this perfection ?

The trainer can assist in slowly breaking down the perfect practice which is necessary to identify the system or technique, but the boxer needs to practice it in real time and to practice and test it against real opposition.

Practice by high level sparring ("taking few prisoners") is necessary to perfect and bring into place the new techniques that are learnt.

High level (competitive) sparring is not a thing that you can just click your fingers and instantly have. Having a gym that has a number of competitive boxers is so necessary for boxers being able to practice moves and techniques (and quality improve); losing in the (real) professional ring is never a good learning factor in the sport of boxing.....it is not like Tennis, where you can often learn a lot by losing. Losing in boxing is usually the way to a short career or early retirement.

The benefit of being able to go to a well populated boxing gym, where good sparring is provided and managed fairly might be an enigma for some.
..Scorpio Lodge in Townsville...always competitive sparring..**** i got some beltin's up there sparrin'..
..ol' Sharkey Hughes(the trainer).."ok..light'n'fast fellas!"..yer right!!!..haha
darkhorse is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 03:20 PM   #129
atigerofold
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Respect-ville.
Posts: 311
vCash: 1000
Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Hey Darkhorse, Scorpio sounds like an interesting gym...when I eventually win Tattslotto, I am going to start my own tourist trek tv production called, Tigers Boxing Gym-Hop Tours and visit every boxing gym in Australia. What a grouse Doco this would make..and wouldnt it rekindle and spark a lot of interest in boxing(again). There are so many good people involved in boxing and some stand out, great boxings characters.
atigerofold is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 04:17 PM   #130
Crusher
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,071
vCash: 500
Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Quote:
Originally Posted by atigerofold View Post
Hey Darkhorse, Scorpio sounds like an interesting gym...when I eventually win Tattslotto, I am going to start my own tourist trek tv production called, Tigers Boxing Gym-Hop Tours and visit every boxing gym in Australia. What a grouse Doco this would make..and wouldnt it rekindle and spark a lot of interest in boxing(again). There are so many good people involved in boxing and some stand out, great boxings characters.
That would awesome. Surely there would be a government grant you could apply for to turn this into reality?
Crusher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 01:41 AM   #131
darkhorse
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,525
vCash: 500
Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
On a side note Bruce Lee won a light weight golden gloves title did he not?
..I've tryed to find out more about this but it seems he only had gym type fights..behind closed doors..it would seem to me that we could probably class these so called fights as spars...although i've heard similar to yourself..I can't find anything concrete..
darkhorse is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 01:51 AM   #132
darkhorse
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,525
vCash: 500
Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Quote:
Originally Posted by atigerofold View Post
Hey Darkhorse, Scorpio sounds like an interesting gym...when I eventually win Tattslotto, I am going to start my own tourist trek tv production called, Tigers Boxing Gym-Hop Tours and visit every boxing gym in Australia. What a grouse Doco this would make..and wouldnt it rekindle and spark a lot of interest in boxing(again). There are so many good people involved in boxing and some stand out, great boxings characters.
..Scorpio Lodge is like a boxing institution up in Townsville..established back in the '70's and has had a who's who of local fighters within' it's ranks..amatuers and pro's...there's a couple of guys like Scooter and Gonzo Hooper and Junior Thompson and Sharkey Hughes who i could put you in contact with if you ever wanted to look into it further..to me there's a book of it's own there with the characters that have come and gone over the years..current referee/judge Tony Kettlewell is another..he had over 100 amatuer fights with Scorpio..
darkhorse is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 02:07 AM   #133
Crusher
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,071
vCash: 500
Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
..I've tryed to find out more about this but it seems he only had gym type fights..behind closed doors..it would seem to me that we could probably class these so called fights as spars...although i've heard similar to yourself..I can't find anything concrete..
I'm sure I read it in a book
It might come to me.
Crusher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 01:54 AM   #134
darkhorse
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,525
vCash: 500
Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Quote:
Originally Posted by atigerofold View Post
With current boxers, I immediately introduce the catching and ducking techniques, and also the leaps back and away from my attacks.
..I like to teach this little leap/hop back to stay outside the jab/straight right..(mainly because personally I'm hopeless at slipping and parrying but I kind of have a handle on distancing)..
..I think there's two ways to go here..one is the pivot off to the outside of the jab..away from the right..and the other is to do a long hop back..do this a few times..then chuck a short hop in..then whamo..you walk them onto your own right..even a short hop then long step backwards...then throw in a short hop back followed by another short step..unexpectingly closing the distance once again..
..then best exponents of this I reckon are fencers..I think alot about footwork can be learnt by watching fencing...

..the most recent demonstration of varying the distance was when Pacquiao got the gift decision against JMM...Marquez is a master at it..and he had the Pacman walking onto his right hands all night in that fight..
..just afew random boxing thoughts anyway..
darkhorse is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 12:42 AM   #135
atigerofold
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Respect-ville.
Posts: 311
vCash: 1000
Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Been away:

As Maxwell Smart said Darkhorse....."Ah....The Old Hop Back from the left jab"...(hahaha)...It is a good move Darkhorse, but if done too often, the savy boxer, baulks a left jab then instantly lunges long with the left hook....

I reckon if you and I sparred, we might not throw a punch.....the sheer tension would sap us as we mentally worked on what the other was thinking...hahaha..!! then the slow clap from the cruel crowd, as we intensified more, waiting, waiting for the other to succumb to the bully crowd's demand for action @!
atigerofold is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Australian Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013