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Old 01-14-2013, 11:24 AM   #16
Seamus
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Slowly but surely I'm beginning to buy into Dempsey as a h2h monster.

Just wish he'd fought wills and Greb.
Turn away from the darkness! It's not too late!
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

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Turn away from the darkness! It's not too late!
I think rocky and tunney beat him but I am starting to think he does better against the field than those two.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:18 PM   #18
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Slowly but surely I'm beginning to buy into Dempsey as a h2h monster.

Just wish he'd fought wills and Greb.
And so do I...But as the philosoper said "it is what it is ".
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:49 PM   #19
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

I think Dempsey was a relentless fighter with a hard, damaging punch in either hand. I don't know whether or not he hit with extreme power, but he put a number of people away in the early rounds, and he also had the ability, when the early KO didn't happen, to focus on beating his opponent up, and stiffling them with a continuous, swarming attack.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:24 PM   #20
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

Dempsey lovers are a sensitive lot, some of them at least.

I'm not trying to tear down his legacy -- a knockout is a knockout regarless of how many times a guy got up (see Foreman-Frazier, no less devastating for Frazier's heart). Just had not seen this discussed and I have seen Dempsey described many times on this forum as one of the most devastating punchers of all time. To me he had good one-punch power but obviously not great one-punch power.

If the neutral corner rule had been in effect earlier in his career, I suspect he'd have needed longer to take out some of his more resilient foes -- but I have no doubt that he would have still taken out Willard, Firpo, etc.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:29 PM   #21
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

He dropped and convinced Sharkey that he didn't want anymore - and Sharkey beat some pretty tough nuts to crack fairly consistently - Floyd Johnson, Jim Maloney, Johnny Risko, George Godfrey, Harry Wills, Mike mcTigue, Tom Heeney, Jack Delaney, Young Stribling, Tommy Loughran, Max Schmeling, Mickey Walker, Primo Carnera etc - who until Joe Louis 10 years later actually stopped Sharkey?? Dempsey turned te trick when he was pretty much shot.

Dempsey was also the only man to drop Gene Tunney and had him very hurt and but for te long count may well have stopped him again when he was far gone himself.

He absolutely obliterated Jess Willard obviously (who in my opinion had one of thw beat chins in history aswell as obviously an insane capacity for absorbing continuous punishment) and in my book on any other day with any other referee that fight would've been stopped after the very first knockdown (2nd at the very latest) which tells you something about Dempseys power - and similarly with the Firpo epic I think most referees would've stopped that one probably after the 4th knockdown - the Fulton blowout is impressive in light of the fact that Sam Langford couldn't get to him and obviously the swiftness of that one indicates how instantly he could hurt you really badly - and obviously the 25 first round kos speaks for itself

Even Carp - took Tunney 15 rounds to stop and past it Carp - and in reality if Dempsey had been let off the leash from the get-go the Carp may have not made it beyond 2 rounds in reality - who else either did or even would've been likely to do that to Carp?

Last edited by RockysSplitNose; 01-14-2013 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 01-14-2013, 03:48 PM   #22
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

My impression is that even though he was 190, his speed, muscles, and technique made him punch like a man who weighed more like 220. His overall results were on a par with guys like Firpo, who also knocked out Jess Willard and Bill Brennan.

What other notables did Dempsey KO? Georges Carpentier was also knocked out by Gene Tunney, Battling Siki, and Billy Papke, so an aggressive style and a good light heavyweight punch was enough to do for him. Tommy Gibbons went the 15 round distance against Dempsey and was only knocked out by Tunney. Jack Sharkey was KO'd by Dempsey, Louis, and Carnera in or after his prime. Louis weighed 199 and probably punched like 230 whereas Carnera was 260 lbs. So a guy with an estimated punch strength of your average 220 pounder would probably be enough to do the job, though interestingly Wills and Godfrey didn't accomplish this and that's approximately what they weighed against Sharkey.
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:40 PM   #23
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

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Originally Posted by Ovid***ile View Post
My impression is that even though he was 190, his speed, muscles, and technique made him punch like a man who weighed more like 220. His overall results were on a par with guys like Firpo, who also knocked out Jess Willard and Bill Brennan.

What other notables did Dempsey KO? Georges Carpentier was also knocked out by Gene Tunney, Battling Siki, and Billy Papke, so an aggressive style and a good light heavyweight punch was enough to do for him. Tommy Gibbons went the 15 round distance against Dempsey and was only knocked out by Tunney. Jack Sharkey was KO'd by Dempsey, Louis, and Carnera in or after his prime. Louis weighed 199 and probably punched like 230 whereas Carnera was 260 lbs. So a guy with an estimated punch strength of your average 220 pounder would probably be enough to do the job, though interestingly Wills and Godfrey didn't accomplish this and that's approximately what they weighed against Sharkey.
OE, excellent post...Dempsey was only about 190, day of the fight because
in those days fighters fought at their lowest weight for speed and stamina.
Dempsey was at 190 deceptive, as he had a narrow waist and dancers legs
[unlike the heavily thighed Marciano]. His main forte was his swiftness and ferocity that got to his target before the bigger boys got to him...
If i can use an analogy...In baseball there was a ballplayer named Dave Kingman who hit moon shot home runs, but hit for a low batting average.
Players as Henry Aaron hit home runs NOWHERE as far, but he hit it OFTEN. Dempsey with his violent fast offense didn't" load up ", but his
quick attack most often got there first, and anyone Dempsey hit he hurt...
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:55 PM   #24
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Slowly but surely I'm beginning to buy into Dempsey as a h2h monster.

Just wish he'd fought wills and Greb.
I can't see it really... I can't think of many ATGs id favour him over
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:38 PM   #25
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

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Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
S, to say Dempsey " had trouble putting people away" ,is not accurate as the record shows. Dempsey had about 25 recorded 1st round knockouts, but there is no FILM of most of the bouts...He, before the Willard bout
in which would have been scored a first round ko, by any referee other than Ollie Pecord, flattened Carl Morris, Fred Fulton, Gunboat Smith,Battling Levinsky and many others in short order with devastating
2 punch combinations that made Dempsey such a drawing card leading up to Willard. I have read many opoinions that the single left hook that
Dempsey landed on Willard's face in the first round, fracturing a cheekbone
was as hard a punch ever landed...Think of the power it took for Dempsey
to aim HIGH to even reach the chin of the 6ft 6" Jess and drop the
previously unfloored Willard ? Ideal power is thrown straight from the shoulder on a line but Dempsey's left hook was a dandy...
In 1920 Dempsey allegedly not in the best of condition, caught up to Bill Brennan in the 12th round with a blazing one-two combo that kod Brennan
and broke Brennan's ankle dropping to the canvas....We rightfully praise
Joe Louis as a devastating puncher for a good reason. But a prime Joe Louis hit lumbering Abe Simon with EVERY punch in the book for 13 rounds
without putting the big target away until the referee stopped the bout...
Can anyone envision a prime Dempsey allowing a big punching bag like Simon to remain on his feet for 13 rounds ? I can't...
There are a lot of posters on ESB that for some reason, like to tear down
the legacy of Jack Dempsey...That is their right, but to imply that the prime Dempsey couldn't hit hard enough to keep a man down, the record proves that Dempsey though not "big", hit with savage speed and force...Give the man his due, I say...cheers...
This ^^^^
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:48 PM   #26
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

A poor man's Nigel Benn.

In fact I would pick Benn to finish him if Dempsey ever appeared for such a match.
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:01 PM   #27
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

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A poor man's Nigel Benn.

In fact I would pick Benn to finish him if Dempsey ever appeared for such a match.
So dramatic Seamus
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:32 PM   #28
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

Dempsey was one of boxing histories all time greatest punchers. His punches had tremendous velosity and combine this with Dempseys ability to put his body weight behind each blow. Just watch the one punch kos of both Sharkey and Tunney in back to back fights. Yes I know officially Tunney got up from that punch but indeed he was down for nearly 15 seconds. Dempsey came a hairs breath from knocking out the No 2 contender and the heavyweight champion with one punch in back to back fights. Pretty impressive power.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:09 PM   #29
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

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So dramatic Seamus
I actually think they are very equivalent. Dempsey had a better beard, though.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:12 PM   #30
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
Dempsey was one of boxing histories all time greatest punchers. His punches had tremendous velosity and combine this with Dempseys ability to put his body weight behind each blow. Just watch the one punch kos of both Sharkey and Tunney in back to back fights. Yes I know officially Tunney got up from that punch but indeed he was down for nearly 15 seconds. Dempsey came a hairs breath from knocking out the No 2 contender and the heavyweight champion with one punch in back to back fights. Pretty impressive power.
"One punch KO's"? He nailed Sharkey in the nutsack and when protesting caught his unprotected jaw.

He hit Tunney with a combo, albeit a viscious combo, to put him down. Putting down 190 pounders with combo's, allowing them to rise KD you does not a great heavyweight puncher make.
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