The cage-fighting boom - all that's missing is the cage

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by The Spider

No arguments from me on that one.

Would be nice if fighters could corner each other more easily in the octagon, but it's not like you can't trap somebody against the cage and beat the piss out of them there.

And the cage provides an element that works as part of the fight, rather than working against the fight. I have no problem with a fighter using the cage to help himself get back to his feet. But I hate it when the ref has to jump in, stop the action and reset in the middle of the ring simply because both guys got tangled up in the ropes when fighting on the ground.

[Haggis McJackass]

And you should never have spectators touching the fighters while they are fighting. That's just plain ridiculous.

[Primate]

'Cage fighting' was officially banned in Western Australia the other day. Not too many people are happy about that one. I know a few gyms that earned a decent portion of their income from doing shows in the cage.

[Johnstown]

one of the positive selling points of mma is also a negative point regarding the cage and the image it presents. That of animals in a cage.

Originally Posted by Primate

'Cage fighting' was officially banned in Western Australia the other day. Not too many people are happy about that one. I know a few gyms that earned a decent portion of their income from doing shows in the cage.

The people who put these bans in place just don't get it do they? What other role does the cage actually play other than stopping the fighters from spilling through the ropes onto the floor?

[globeman]

who actually sits down an bans this shit. What credentials do they posses ?

Originally Posted by globeman

who actually sits down an bans this shit. What credentials do they posses ?

Not enough of the right ones that's plain to see.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Ring is bullshit for an MMA fight. Gets in the way all the time and presents an artificial obstacle to consistently interfere with the natural flow of the fight.

Eh morning star, evening star..

The same can be said for the cage.. It creates artificial advantages for certain fighters.

I like both

If it's two strikers put them in the cage.. If one guy is a lame ass Rashad Evans wall n stall, put em in the ring.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Koa

Eh morning star, evening star..

The same can be said for the cage.. It creates artificial advantages for certain fighters.

I like both

If it's two strikers put them in the cage.. If one guy is a lame ass Rashad Evans wall n stall, put em in the ring.

Eh, a ring isn't the worst thing ever, but it's objectively inferior for MMA.

A cage is simply an enclosed area. That's it - that's all it is.

A ring is designed for a different sport entirely. It's well suited for boxing, it's crap for a combat sport involving takedowns and ground fighting. Having spectators fucking with the ropes and touching the fighters during the action to make sure they don't fall out of the ring is plain ridiculous - I don't see how anyone could even argue that.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Eh, a ring isn't the worst thing ever, but it's objectively inferior for MMA.

A cage is simply an enclosed area. That's it - that's all it is.

A ring is designed for a different sport entirely. It's well suited for boxing, it's crap for a combat sport involving takedowns and ground fighting. Having spectators fucking with the ropes and touching the fighters during the action to make sure they don't fall out of the ring is plain ridiculous - I don't see how anyone could even argue that.

I can argue with that! I'm your huckleberry brother!

It's really just personal preference for me. When I go to watch a fight, I want to watch guys fight, rather than just control, or just smother.

Think Rashad Evans when he's up against someone he's clearly afraid of. He wall n stalls, he's an incredible wrestler but he employs strategies that..

A) prevent him from fighting, and eat the clock
B) are all about control and never about the finish, not fighting (imo) unless you are trying to do something that leads to finishing the fight.

Guys like Rashad (when he's scared) or Jake Shields, I don't want to give these guys the advantage of the cage because they are the type of fighters that look to not fight, by utilizing control without going for the finish. They are content using control by itself to get the W. The ring, makes it a little, to a lot more difficult to employ that sort of style.

But, if it's two guys that earnestly want to take one anothers head off, or walk away with the other guys arm or leg, then put them in the cage..

I guess I'm trying to say, if it's a real fight and guys are fighting, then the cage is good.. If it's a couple wrestlers or puffy punch girls (Jake Shields) put those turds in the ring and make them fight.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Koa

I can argue with that! I'm your huckleberry brother!

It's really just personal preference for me. When I go to watch a fight, I want to watch guys fight, rather than just control, or just smother.

Think Rashad Evans when he's up against someone he's clearly afraid of. He wall n stalls, he's an incredible wrestler but he employs strategies that..

A) prevent him from fighting, and eat the clock
B) are all about control and never about the finish, not fighting (imo) unless you are trying to do something that leads to finishing the fight.

Guys like Rashad (when he's scared) or Jake Shields, I don't want to give these guys the advantage of the cage because they are the type of fighters that look to not fight, by utilizing control without going for the finish. They are content using control by itself to get the W. The ring, makes it a little, to a lot more difficult to employ that sort of style.

But, if it's two guys that earnestly want to take one anothers head off, or walk away with the other guys arm or leg, then put them in the cage..

I guess I'm trying to say, if it's a real fight and guys are fighting, then the cage is good.. If it's a couple wrestlers or puffy punch girls (Jake Shields) put those turds in the ring and make them fight.

If a fight's going to be boring and one or both guys are going to fight negatively, it's going to be boring regardless of whether it's in a cage or a ring. You act like there's no such thing as lay and pray or a boring fight in a ring.

But the fact remains - the cage is designed for mixed martial arts. The ring is designed for boxing. A different sport entirely.

For your complaints about individual fighters - don't you get annoyed when the ref jumps in and breaks up the action to waste a bunch of time walking the fighters to the centre of the ring, for no other reason than the ropes got in the way? What about when a hurt fighter gets the opportunity to recover purely because the environment he's fighting in was designed for an entirely different sport?

[Koa]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

If a fight's going to be boring and one or both guys are going to fight negatively, it's going to be boring regardless of whether it's in a cage or a ring. You act like there's no such thing as lay and pray or a boring fight in a ring.

But the fact remains - the cage is designed for mixed martial arts. The ring is designed for boxing. A different sport entirely.

For your complaints about individual fighters - don't you get annoyed when the ref jumps in and breaks up the action to waste a bunch of time walking the fighters to the centre of the ring, for no other reason than the ropes got in the way? What about when a hurt fighter gets the opportunity to recover purely because the environment he's fighting in was designed for an entirely different sport?

No doubt, if it were up to me I'd adjust what the ring is according to styles. I don't think that having a ring would stop wall n stalls or lnp. But it would take away from tools a guy can dip into. Think John Jones vs. Evans.. Would Evans have been able to push Jones against the cage and waste time in a ring? I think Jones would have knocked Evans out if they fought in the ring.. It's just speculation, but really think about it.

I would have hated watching the refs reset, and pull Evans off the ropes... But, I would have been delighted to watch the two of them fight, for more than 2-3 minutes of a 25 minute fight.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Koa

No doubt, if it were up to me I'd adjust what the ring is according to styles. I don't think that having a ring would stop wall n stalls or lnp. But it would take away from tools a guy can dip into. Think John Jones vs. Evans.. Would Evans have been able to push Jones against the cage and waste time in a ring? I think Jones would have knocked Evans out if they fought in the ring.. It's just speculation, but really think about it.

I would have hated watching the refs reset, and pull Evans off the ropes... But, I would have been delighted to watch the two of them fight, for more than 2-3 minutes of a 25 minute fight.

The cage is simply an enclosed area. The ring is an unnatural environment for a full-contact fight. Whichever environment they fight in, a fighter who is skillful enough can neutralize his opponent's offence and make it a dull fight. If that's what he wants to do.

But your argument against the cage basically boils down to "I don't like the odd wrestler using their wrestling to control their opponent's movement."

But that's not enough. If you look at the case for and against on both sides, it's not even a contest. The cage is the superior environment. Better flow of the fight, doesn't involve spectators physically interacting with the fighters, and better for fighter safety as well.

[Koa]

I think of the cage, not just as an enclosed area but as a tool that can be utilized, and it's a specific enough tool that certain disciplines can utilize it moreso than other disciplines.

If I were to fight someone in an open field like a football field or soccer field, or baseball diamond. I'm going to be hard pressed to find a wall to push someone against to tire them out. I'm going to have freedom to move around. In this predicament, someone with a decent sprawl and good striking is going to have an advantage.

If I were in a bar, or an office or something, then yeah. There will be walls and such.. So environment of the fight really depends on what you are looking for, and I guess it depends on perspective..

If I watch someone like Rashad fight Jones, or I see how Rashad fights Rampage, I'm going to want to see him fight (what I consider fighting). I'd set him up in the situation that is more similar to an open field (ring) where he will more likely have to take the fight to the ground, an struggle to get the fight there, where he will be more desperate to inflict damage so he can win the fight.

I'm more about making guys fight, if the environment can change, then so be it.. I remember seeing some really old school mma fights with moving floors, so ideally there is no cage or border. To me it's more about not offering guys extra tools to win, just make them win it on their own.. Using the cage to stall is one of those things I consider an extra tool we give to certain fighters, giving them an advantage over others sometimes.. Some fighters it really doesn't matter where you put them, this is how I'd like it to be with all fighters. I want to see fights, they can be strategic and take a long time so long as the end in mind is to finish.. I see too many guys who just want to wait out the clock and get the W, or are content losing a decision. In many cases, I think the environment of the fight can change to force this upon fighters who are otherwise, well not really trying to fight, but win instead.

[Overhill]

Cage tunes off many older sports fans. Can't blame them.