Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

[Bummy Davis]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Remember the old Scotty Pippen commercial where he's playing in the 1950's and the recruiter says... "Son, you could make hundreds of dollars playing this game"?

Well, now, it's millions for not even playing very well, and many millions more if you get a shoe deal... and many, many millions more if the shoe company gets the right endorser. So, the recruitment has been ratcheted up about a billion fold.

I even heard an interview last week with Kobe Bryant lamenting the demise of the big man, asking "Where did they all go? It's like someone pushed a button and they disappeared." He was speaking entering the league in an era of Shaq, Rik Smits, Ewing, Mourning...

From my Google warrior research, it seems the height of the average adult US male is in fact going down, even accounting for immigration, due to sedentary lifestyle and poor diet (junk food), two problems from which Marciano did not suffer. You can follow the links I posted above to read more.

If you take further in consideration that he was the son of immigrants from Abruzzo and Campania, both in Southern Italy, you will realize he already was a giant for that particular gene pool. Having often visited there I can attest anecdotally that the folks just aren't that tall down there. Statistically, men in Southern Italy still only average 5 foot 8, about the same as Japan.

And again, the point has been made, that all the conjuring, compensating and imagining has nothing to do with Marciano, the actual fighter.

growing up in the NY area I have had the experience of being around many different kinds of ethnic groups and I can tell you American Italians and Italians are 2 different types of people. There are many types of Italian Americans ...not all Italians are tough but there are shortish Italians that have freakish strength, I know 2 brothers that are smaller than 5"8 that are legends in the boroughs of NY for there street fighting and are known for there one punch power. I know Italian,Irish,Poles,Germans,Jews of all nations that are tougher than there European cousins... Italian Americans for one have some shorter but wider and heavier boned or steel boned people and some are freakishly strong...they may be 5'8 5'9 and 230 lbs, not always suited for the boxing ring but strong dangerous people...I have also seen tough Jews and Puerto Ricans and Blacks that are small in height but freakish strength.....Northern Americans may not be as tough today as in the last 100 years but have been historically tougher than Europeans

I have to say these days it seems like Europe has a large edge on America today but America mostly dominated in the past 10 decades

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by Bummy Davis

I have to say these days it seems like Europe has a large edge on America today but America mostly dominated in the past 10 decades

We has gotten soft, we has. Fast food, video games, sense of entitlement... the death of Ronald Reagan... it has led us down the path of perdition. And now we only breed blobs of soft, whining flesh.

[Bummy Davis]

Originally Posted by Seamus

We has gotten soft, we has. Fast food, video games, sense of entitlement... the death of Ronald Reagan... it has led us down the path of perdition. And now we only breed blobs of soft, whining flesh.

all kidding aside you may be very right

[edward morbius]

Originally Posted by Seamus

We has gotten soft, we has. Fast food, video games, sense of entitlement... the death of Ronald Reagan... it has led us down the path of perdition. And now we only breed blobs of soft, whining flesh.

"the death of Ronald Reagan"

Naw. It was the death of the Lone Ranger. When Clayton Moore went, we went.

The only argument you have made that I agree with is that America has gone to pot.

[edward morbius]

Originally Posted by Bummy Davis

growing up in the NY area I have had the experience of being around many different kinds of ethnic groups and I can tell you American Italians and Italians are 2 different types of people. There are many types of Italian Americans ...not all Italians are tough but there are shortish Italians that have freakish strength, I know 2 brothers that are smaller than 5"8 that are legends in the boroughs of NY for there street fighting and are known for there one punch power. I know Italian,Irish,Poles,Germans,Jews of all nations that are tougher than there European cousins... Italian Americans for one have some shorter but wider and heavier boned or steel boned people and some are freakishly strong...they may be 5'8 5'9 and 230 lbs, not always suited for the boxing ring but strong dangerous people...I have also seen tough Jews and Puerto Ricans and Blacks that are small in height but freakish strength.....Northern Americans may not be as tough today as in the last 100 years but have been historically tougher than Europeans

I have to say these days it seems like Europe has a large edge on America today but America mostly dominated in the past 10 decades

"Europe has a large edge on America today"

In boxing for certain.

But I have to say that boxing is not even on most people's radar out here in the west anymore.

[Bummy Davis]

Originally Posted by edward morbius

"Europe has a large edge on America today"

In boxing for certain.

But I have to say that boxing is not even on most people's radar out here in the west anymore.

I know a lot of people look at you like you are crazy if you admit to liking boxing today....I will always enjoy a good fight and I like all sports but nothing beats boxing when you have a great match.

[Absolutely!]

Originally Posted by edward morbius

"Europe has a large edge on America today"

In boxing for certain.

But I have to say that boxing is not even on most people's radar out here in the west anymore.

Boxing's rarely been on any country's radar since Tyson's heyday. Outside of the odd superfight it's still a niche sport here in the UK. I believe the situation is more or less the same in the rest of Europe.

You're not special in this regard.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by Absolutely!

Boxing's rarely been on any country's radar since Tyson's heyday. Outside of the odd superfight it's still a niche sport here in the UK. I believe the situation is more or less the same in the rest of Europe.

You're not special in this regard.

I live around a large Latino population. They still love the sport.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by edward morbius

"the death of Ronald Reagan"

Naw. It was the death of the Lone Ranger. When Clayton Moore went, we went.

The only argument you have made that I agree with is that America has gone to pot.

I think it was when George Reeves went.

My Superman has a beer gut and smokes and can kick your Superman's ass.

[edward morbius]

Originally Posted by Seamus

I think it was when George Reeves went.

My Superman has a beer gut and smokes and can kick your Superman's ass.

I gotta admit we started down the chute when Reeves went, but it was Clayton Moore going that finished the slide.

[edward morbius]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

The height of the American male lead movie actors has gone down.
Loads more of the old-time movie stars were 6'2 and 6'3. Greg Peck, Joel McCrea, Gary Cooper, Charlton Heston, James Stewart.
Even Clark Gable was 6'. Cary Grant 6'1. Burt Lancaster 6' or more.
Short ones like Cagney and Bogart were rare.
John Wayne was 6'4. So was Robert Ryan.

Nowadays most of the big movie stars are under 6', or so it seems.
There might be a technical reason for that, I dunno.

It's interesting. If John Wayne was born 60 years later he'd be like 7 foot tall.
(but he probably wouldn't shoot as many 'injuns')

I think Gable was 6' 1"

but you are picking and choosing here. After all during that era Spencer Tracy, Ronald Colman, Wm Powell, Robert Taylor, Marlon Brando, Paul Newman, James Dean, Jack Lemmon, Bing Crosby, Bob Hope, etc were stars. And what about MICKEY ROONEY.

As for John Wayne, Robert Mitchum was quoted as saying Wayne was about an even six foot but wore lifts to look taller than his co-stars.

next to Clint Eastwood or Clint Walker, Wayne was a shrimp.

[edward morbius]

Robert Mitchum on John Wayne

"John Wayne had four-inch lifts in his shoes. He had the overheads in his boat accommodated to fit him. He had a special roof put in his station wagon. The son-of-a-bitch, they probably buried him in his goddamn lifts."

[Seamus]

Bullshit, Mitchum was on the hippy lettuce.

Marion Morrison was a legit 6 foot 4. Look at The Big Trail. He towers over his costars.

[edward morbius]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Bullshit, Mitchum was on the hippy lettuce.

Marion Morrison was a legit 6 foot 4. Look at The Big Trail. He towers over his costars.

I will rewatch The Big Trail because interestingly, watching it convinced me that there might have been something to the lifts business as the Duke didn't look that tall to me in that film.

This is such an important issue that more research is required.

[Seamus]

Raoul Walsh directed. Revenge. Murder. Justice. Not afraid to address any of those issues. Highly rated.