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Old 01-17-2013, 03:21 PM   #871
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
For anyone interested in the question of John Wayne's real height,

I recommend googling

"Gary Cooper and John Wayne photographs"

The two men took at least two photos side by side, and Cooper looks CONSIDERABLY taller in both.

One shows them walking together inside (so on a level floor) with both apparently wearing sandals and Cooper seems much the taller.

Gary Cooper was listed as 6' 3"
Take that to the lounge son. Discuss the topic or gtfo.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:28 PM   #872
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Take that to the lounge son. Discuss the topic or gtfo.

I take it you didn't read the last few pages. You insufferable little twit.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:28 PM   #873
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
For anyone interested in the question of John Wayne's real height,

I recommend googling

"Gary Cooper and John Wayne photographs"

The two men took at least two photos side by side, and Cooper looks CONSIDERABLY taller in both.

One shows them walking together inside (so on a level floor) with both apparently wearing sandals and Cooper seems much the taller.

Gary Cooper was listed as 6' 3"
Photos can be very deceiving as any photog will tell you. I have several first hand accounts of Wayne, including from costars, all stating that he seemed a legit six foot four.

But was he packing like a gnat?

Marciano lowers his t rex arms for body work and this fight is over early. He can't close the distance well enough and he doesn't get off fast enoughn. The more I think of this match up, the bigger the demolition of the wee fellow and the Italian American pyche.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:37 PM   #874
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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I take it you didn't read the last few pages. You insufferable little twit.
You haven't made a decent post since you got here. You're as significant to me as the ads on the bottom of the page.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:39 PM   #875
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Photos can be very deceiving as any photog will tell you. I have several first hand accounts of Wayne, including from costars, all stating that he seemed a legit six foot four.

But was he packing like a gnat?

Marciano lowers his t rex arms for body work and this fight is over early. He can't close the distance well enough and he doesn't get off fast enoughn. The more I think of this match up, the bigger the demolition of the wee fellow and the Italian American pyche.
Thats your opinion. Nobody can ever take it away from you. Enjoy it. Knock out loss for Wlad under 10 rounds.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:41 PM   #876
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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You haven't made a decent post since you got here. You're as significant to me as the ads on the bottom of the page.

My posts are great little man. Don't you worry about that.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:29 PM   #877
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

As much a Marciano lover as I am, I think this might be a fight where sze does matter. Rocky would be giving away 6 or 7 inches in height, over a foot in reach and about 50 lbs in weight..and it isn't fat either. Now if Rocky can reach Vlads chin consistently enough sure he could take him out but could he reach it enough? Vlad would know that Rocky first has to work his way inside and he would do his damndest to avoid that from happening. He has a very good jab and I'm sure he would use it to the max to keep Rocky on the outside. He also moves very well for a man of his size and wouldn't plan on staying right in front of Marciano...at least not for long anyway. If Rocky had Dempsey's reach and Frazier's quicker attack...at least after Joe's warmed up then he would stand a better chance of getting inside. Dempsey would fare better in a match against Vlad due to his reach and speed of attack as well as his faster hands. I could see Jack bobbing his way inside and whipping a left hook to Vlads chin that puts the bigger man in survival mode. Boxing is all about styles and as much as I love Marciano this might be a bad matchup for him stylewise and sizewise....Though I wouldn't bet my lifesavings on the outcome.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:11 PM   #878
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

My contention goes further than merely that size wins this one for Wlad.

Wlad is quite simply the greater heavyweight. He has been the best heavyweight on the planet, not in Rhode Island, for almost as long as Rocky's entire career. He has been able to fend off the old guard, his contemporaries (many who have already retired) and he is working on the new guard. He is fighting in an era which recruits worldwide... Africa, North America, Eastern Europe, a power-first era for the division when heavies simply dwarf those of the '50's.

Wlad not only demolishes Marciano; he is the greater heavyweight.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:40 PM   #879
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Photos can be very deceiving as any photog will tell you. I have several first hand accounts of Wayne, including from costars, all stating that he seemed a legit six foot four.

But was he packing like a gnat?

Marciano lowers his t rex arms for body work and this fight is over early. He can't close the distance well enough and he doesn't get off fast enoughn. The more I think of this match up, the bigger the demolition of the wee fellow and the Italian American pyche.





one thing the Italian Americans have showed us is great heart, and great chins = Marciano,Lamotta,Maxim,Basilio,Canzonari, Ambers,etc.....you may be able to beat the wee fellows body but don't bank on beating the Italian American Psyche....As a boxing fan I appreciate most ethnic backgrounds, I see you have a thing with Italians so maybe you got slighted or beat up or one stole your girl.....I appreciate fighters and race or nationality matters not to me, I don't even root for all Americans just because they are Americans, I really like the Klitchko's and many European fighters but some guys like yourself have a thing beyond an opinion and that statement above is quite revealing

Last edited by Bummy Davis; 01-17-2013 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:26 PM   #880
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
My contention goes further than merely that size wins this one for Wlad.

Wlad is quite simply the greater heavyweight. He has been the best heavyweight on the planet, not in Rhode Island, for almost as long as Rocky's entire career. He has been able to fend off the old guard, his contemporaries (many who have already retired) and he is working on the new guard. He is fighting in an era which recruits worldwide... Africa, North America, Eastern Europe, a power-first era for the division when heavies simply dwarf those of the '50's.

Wlad not only demolishes Marciano; he is the greater heavyweight.
Wlad never beat the next best heavyweight out there. Might not be any fault of his own, but he hasn't done it. He compares more to Dempsey not fighting Wills.

"best heavyweight on the planet, not in Rhode Island"

Kind of a silly argument. Marciano beat every man who was heavyweight champion during his active career--Louis, Charles, Walcott.

It is Wlad who has not beaten the best men during his time--Holyfield, Lewis, Vitali. Again, not his fault, but he didn't do it.

I grant that he does have a great deal of longevity.

"Recruited from the world"

Perhaps too much. Wlad has fought too many Americans and not enough eastern-bloc fighters now that they are the top men.

Marciano's major victims were American, but why not. They were the best out there, and had beaten the best heavyweights from around the world. Heavyweights were recruited from all over then too.

Joe Louis--defeated Europeans Schmeling, Carnera, Uzcudun, Birkie--British Empire champion Farr--Latins Agramonte, Brescia, Godoy, Brion

Joe Walcott--defeated Euro champs Tandberg and Ten Hoff, as well as Agramonte

Moore--Beat the best in Australia. Beat Latin fighters too numerous to mention, and also Euros.

****ell--won the Euro light heavy title from the Algerian Albert Yvel and defended the British Empire championship against South African Johnny Arthur.

Even Lee Savold stopped British Empire champion Bruce Wood****.

One or another of Marciano's major victims defeated fighters from every continent except perhaps Asia which had champions and top contenders, but not at the larger weights.

Boxing was a world sport in that era, also.

There is one factoid that Wlad and Vitali have on Marciano, though. They have each been stopped on two continents. Marciano on none.

Wlad has been stopped in three different countries. Vitali in two. Marciano in none.

Last edited by edward morbius; 01-17-2013 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:30 PM   #881
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Photos can be very deceiving as any photog will tell you. I have several first hand accounts of Wayne, including from costars, all stating that he seemed a legit six foot four.

But was he packing like a gnat?

Marciano lowers his t rex arms for body work and this fight is over early. He can't close the distance well enough and he doesn't get off fast enoughn. The more I think of this match up, the bigger the demolition of the wee fellow and the Italian American pyche.


"The more I think of this match up"

This is what is known as a fantasy.

Thankfully, when I was a young fellow, mine ran in more interesting directions.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:15 PM   #882
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
Wlad never beat the next best heavyweight out there. Might not be any fault of his own, but he hasn't done it. He compares more to Dempsey not fighting Wills.

"best heavyweight on the planet, not in Rhode Island"

Kind of a silly argument. Marciano beat every man who was heavyweight champion during his active career--Louis, Charles, Walcott.

It is Wlad who has not beaten the best men during his time--Holyfield, Lewis, Vitali. Again, not his fault, but he didn't do it.

I grant that he does have a great deal of longevity.

"Recruited from the world"

Perhaps too much. Wlad has fought too many Americans and not enough eastern-bloc fighters now that they are the top men.

Marciano's major victims were American, but why not. They were the best out there, and had beaten the best heavyweights from around the world. Heavyweights were recruited from all over then too.

Joe Louis--defeated Europeans Schmeling, Carnera, Uzcudun, Birkie--British Empire champion Farr--Latins Agramonte, Brescia, Godoy, Brion

Joe Walcott--defeated Euro champs Tandberg and Ten Hoff, as well as Agramonte

Moore--Beat the best in Australia. Beat Latin fighters too numerous to mention, and also Euros.

****ell--won the Euro light heavy title from the Algerian Albert Yvel and defended the British Empire championship against South African Johnny Arthur.

Even Lee Savold stopped British Empire champion Bruce Wood****.

One or another of Marciano's major victims defeated fighters from every continent except perhaps Asia which had champions and top contenders, but not at the larger weights.

Boxing was a world sport in that era, also.

There is one factoid that Wlad and Vitali have on Marciano, though. They have each been stopped on two continents. Marciano on none.

Wlad has been stopped in three different countries. Vitali in two. Marciano in none.
good stuff
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:18 PM   #883
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
"The more I think of this match up"

This is what is known as a fantasy.

Thankfully, when I was a young fellow, mine ran in more interesting directions.
me too Thank goodness
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:35 PM   #884
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
"The more I think of this match up"

This is what is known as a fantasy.

Thankfully, when I was a young fellow, mine ran in more interesting directions.
So you made conclusions on this match-up by not thinking about it?

And odds are that I am older than you.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:49 PM   #885
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
Wlad never beat the next best heavyweight out there. Might not be any fault of his own, but he hasn't done it. He compares more to Dempsey not fighting Wills.

"best heavyweight on the planet, not in Rhode Island"

Kind of a silly argument. Marciano beat every man who was heavyweight champion during his active career--Louis, Charles, Walcott.
But look at what was available. A shot Louis who was only in the ring to pay off the tax man. A bona fide lighheavy in Charles. A Walcott on his last two fights after a long, damaging career. Marciano snuck in for a second at a transitional, vulnerable time in the division's history. He gets an A+ for timing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
It is Wlad who has not beaten the best men during his time--Holyfield, Lewis, Vitali. Again, not his fault, but he didn't do it.
Did anyone really want to see Wlad against Holy at any time since 2006? Really? Lennox Claudius Lewis, who I hold in higher esteem, retired in 2004. Vitali is an exceptional case in that they are brothers which I half understand/half think it is very convenient for Waldo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
"Recruited from the world"
Heavyweight are much more widely recruited in the geographic sense today than they were in 1950. Kazahkstan, Ukraine, Nigeria, US, UK, Belarus and Russia are all putting out top notch talent that is permitted and encouraged to participate in the pro ranks. In the 50's you could really only say that about the UK and US.


Quote:
Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
There is one factoid that Wlad and Vitali have on Marciano, though. They have each been stopped on two continents. Marciano on none.

Wlad has been stopped in three different countries. Vitali in two. Marciano in none.
If my memory serves correct, Marciano traveled ONCE to fight outside the eastern US seaboard, and that was against Butterball ****ell in San Francisco, a fight in which many thought he should have been disqualified and a pretty wretched effort by his standards. He fought something like 33 of his 49 fights in Rhode Island, mostly in the same auditorium. So, home crowd, home ref's, comfortable surroundings and largely low-rate, third string, circuit fighters. How would he have done in other's backyards, traveling internationally with ref's who didn't look the other way on his rough stuff? I'm not convinced his career would have been radically different, but I think there would be a good chance for an L or two to be on his record.
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