Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

[cyrax99]

I'm sure I'll catch alot of shit talking about a beloved fighter like Frazier, but the truth is that he is quite possibly the most overrated heavyweight of all time. I hear people mention him as a top 5, top 10, top 20 heavyweight, when he simply isn't. If you're bound and determined to believe he is great, just like a religious person, no facts will change your mind. But if you choose to be open minded, I simply do not see ANY argument for him being an ATG heavyweight, period.

First off, lets start with his record 32-4-1. He has 37 fights total, not very many to begin with. Ask yourself, what great all time heavyweights has he fought? Ali and Foreman are the only two answers.

Ali was a COMPLETELY different fighter after being exiled for three years, he completely lost his legs. This was a technically flawed fighter, but one who was tremendous due to physical gifts. He was a shadow of his former self after returning, any only won big fights afterwards due to outsmarting guys like Foreman. Still, despite this being a much worse Ali, Frazier loses 2 out of the 3 fights. Ali would have absolutely destroyed him pre exile.

Foreman absolutely obliterated Joe Frazier twice. It wasn't even close.

Joe Frazier's record against ATGs: 1-4

His one win being one he'd of never had if he fought Ali pre-exile.

Joe's other best wins are against guys like Jerry Quarry, and Jimmy Ellis, whom absolutely nobody considers ATG heavyweights. He hardly pulled out a decision to Bonavena who knocked him down twice, and nearly beat him. He has quite easily the weakest resume of any person considered an ATG, it's ridiculous. Seriously, had he not fought a watered down Ali with diminished physical gifts, would anyone even be talking about him as a great? ABSOLUTELY NOT. The man is 1-4 against ATGs...

[lufcrazy]

The man has only ever been beaten by a top ten hw.

He cleaned out the post Ali era in dominant fashion. You can judge him all you want off boxrec but without actually watching him your opinion is shite.

I can tell you haven't seen fotc nor the bonavena fight.

[Garrus]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

The man has only ever been beaten by a top ten hw.

He cleaned out the post Ali era in dominant fashion. You can judge him all you want off boxrec but without actually watching him your opinion is shite.

I can tell you haven't seen fotc nor the bonavena fight.

What a shit fucking thread this is.

Yet another troll enters the General Forum.

[cyrax99]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

The man has only ever been beaten by a top ten hw.

He cleaned out the post Ali era in dominant fashion. You can judge him all you want off boxrec but without actually watching him your opinion is shite.

I can tell you haven't seen fotc nor the bonavena fight.

He cleaned out the Post Ali Era? Beating Jimmy Ellis and Jerry Quarry is cleaning house? Tell me, besides an Ali whos physical gifts were completely diminished, what wins vs all time greats does he have? How can you be considered an all time great, without beating all time great fighters? He was absolutely demolished by Foreman too, both times he wasn't competitive.

I've actually seen many of his fights, he does not deserve to be considered an ATG, period. His resume is incredibly weak, without a watered down Ali win on his record (whom he still lost to twice) nobody would even be considering him great, you CANNOT deny that. Prime Ali would have danced circles around him.

[DrMo]

Joe has arguably the best single win in the history of the heavyweight division.

Frazier is a legend who has been in some incredible fights

[cyrax99]

Originally Posted by Garrus

What a shit fucking thread this is.

Yet another troll enters the General Forum.

I'm not trolling, at all. I presented a very valid argument in this thread, something a troll wouldn't do. People have a very overrated perception of Frazier, but when analyzed, it makes absolutely no logical sense.

[KO KIDD]

i dont think Ali was as diminished as your saying

i will agree he did fight some weak challengers and post Ali I his career nose dived but he is a great

[cyrax99]

Originally Posted by DrMo

Joe has arguably the best single win in the history of the heavyweight division.

Frazier is a legend who has been in some incredible fights

So beating a post exile Ali who lost most of his physical gifts, and was forced to win fights with nothing but an iron chin and determination is the best win in HW history? Even with that Ali, he lost two out of three, and was OBLITERATED twice by Foreman.

Going 1-4 against ATGs, one who was horribly diminished makes you a "legend?"

Seriously, people touting Frazier as this amazing fighter are doing so based off emotion, and no logic.

[cyrax99]

Originally Posted by KO KIDD

i dont think Ali was as diminished as your saying

i will agree he did fight some weak challengers and post Ali I his career nose dived but he is a great

Pre exile, Ali was a fighter with quite possibly the best footwork ever seen, incredibly hard to hit, very fluid fighter.

Post exile, Ali was a fighter who had completely lost his legs, was quite easy to hit, and won fights purely off courage, an iron chin, and ring smarts.

Completely different fighter, do you see the Ali who fought Cleveland Williams and Liston losing to Frazier? Not even close... Joe was a one dimensional fighter, and wouldn't have been able to keep that Ali on the ropes. He'd be getting pot shotted all night long. The fact he drops 2 out of 3 fights to that severely diminished Ali is pretty indicative he'd of had his ass handed to him vs a Prime one...

[IntentionalButt]

Just stop.

[Hands of Iron]

I'd have gone Johnson or Dempsey.

[ROACH]

A guy with Joe's style doesn't have the same type of longevity as a guy like Wlad for instance that can use his height and reach.

Short guys like Frazier and Tyson, would have beat Wlad, Tyson would have done it destructively, but they don't have the same type of longevity.

At his best though, Joe Frazier was on of the greatest heavyweights in history.

[IntentionalButt]

On ESB, Welliver.

[ROACH]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

I'd have gone Johnson or Dempsey.

Those are amongst the two best.

[Garrus]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

I'd have gone Johnson or Dempsey.

I don't see too many overrating Johnson (probably Janitor but he always sways towards older fighters).

Dempsey on the other hand...