Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

[DrMo]

Originally Posted by cyrax99

Seriously, trolls touting Frazier as this overrated fighter are doing so based off emotion, and no logic.

Fixed.

He's a top10 ATG heavyweight & nothing you post will change that reality.

[cyrax99]

Originally Posted by ROACH

A guy with Joe's style doesn't have the same type of longevity as a guy like Wlad for instance that can use his height and reach.

Short guys like Frazier and Tyson, would have beat Wlad, Tyson would have done it destructively, but they don't have the same type of longevity.

At his best though, Joe Frazier was on of the greatest heavyweights in history.

One of the greatest HW's in history at his best? He is 1-2 against a horribly dimished Ali, and 0-2 against Foreman, making him 1-4 against ATGs.

What other wins does he have to be called a great? Jimmy Ellis and Jerry Quarry? Who considers them all time greats? He narrowly beat Bonavena, who knocked him down twice, who considers Bonavena a great?

He has absolutely NOTHING on his resume to justify being called an all time great.

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by Garrus

I don't see too many overrating Johnson (probably Janitor but he always sways towards older fighters).

Dempsey on the other hand...

They both appear with alarming regularity on Top 10 lists... Pound-for-Pound. I don't necessarily mean on ESB alone.

[cyrax99]

Originally Posted by DrMo

Fixed.

He's a top10 ATG heavyweight & nothing you post will change that reality.

Right, no amount of facts will change someone's mind who is bound and determined to believe something. I've presented valid arguments, all you can do is repeatedly say he is great with no rebuttal to the facts.

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by cyrax99

One of the greatest HW's in history at his best? He is 1-2 against a horribly dimished Ali, and 0-2 against Foreman, making him 1-4 against ATGs.

What other wins does he have to be called a great? Jimmy Ellis and Jerry Quarry? Who considers them all time greats? He narrowly beat Bonavena, who knocked him down twice, who considers Bonavena a great?

He has absolutely NOTHING on his resume to justify being called an all time great.

Joe Frazier was more diminished in their second and third fights than Ali was in the first. Why are you discrediting one of the best fighters on Ali's record?

[HEADBANGER]

Originally Posted by cyrax99

I'm sure I'll catch alot of shit talking about a beloved fighter like Frazier, but the truth is that he is quite possibly the most overrated heavyweight of all time. I hear people mention him as a top 5, top 10, top 20 heavyweight, when he simply isn't. If you're bound and determined to believe he is great, just like a religious person, no facts will change your mind. But if you choose to be open minded, I simply do not see ANY argument for him being an ATG heavyweight, period.

First off, lets start with his record 32-4-1. He has 37 fights total, not very many to begin with. Ask yourself, what great all time heavyweights has he fought? Ali and Foreman are the only two answers.

Ali was a COMPLETELY different fighter after being exiled for three years, he completely lost his legs. This was a technically flawed fighter, but one who was tremendous due to physical gifts. He was a shadow of his former self after returning, any only won big fights afterwards due to outsmarting guys like Foreman. Still, despite this being a much worse Ali, Frazier loses 2 out of the 3 fights. Ali would have absolutely destroyed him pre exile.

Foreman absolutely obliterated Joe Frazier twice. It wasn't even close.

Joe Frazier's record against ATGs: 1-4

His one win being one he'd of never had if he fought Ali pre-exile.

Joe's other best wins are against guys like Jerry Quarry, and Jimmy Ellis, whom absolutely nobody considers ATG heavyweights. He hardly pulled out a decision to Bonavena who knocked him down twice, and nearly beat him. He has quite easily the weakest resume of any person considered an ATG, it's ridiculous. Seriously, had he not fought a watered down Ali with diminished physical gifts, would anyone even be talking about him as a great? ABSOLUTELY NOT. The man is 1-4 against ATGs...

I'm in total agreement with you but don't expect anyone on here to face the facts and agree with you. If Frazier is judged by the same standards that all of todays fighters are judged then there are gaping holes in his resume just topped up by one outstanding victory.

I can't repect any poster on here who believes that frazier belongs in the top 10 greatest heavyweights of all time.

[DrMo]

Originally Posted by cyrax99

Right, no amount of facts will change someone's mind who is bound and determined to believe something. I've presented valid arguments, all you can do is repeatedly say he is great with no rebuttal to the facts.

What do you think about Ali holding onto the back of Joe's neck all the way through their second fight?

[lefthook89]

Originally Posted by HEADBANGER

I can't repect any poster on here who doesn't dick ride british, white boxers.

fixed, and you know its true

[Bullitt]

Originally Posted by cyrax99

I'm sure I'll catch alot of shit talking about a beloved fighter like Frazier, but the truth is that he is quite possibly the most overrated heavyweight of all time. I hear people mention him as a top 5, top 10, top 20 heavyweight, when he simply isn't. If you're bound and determined to believe he is great, just like a religious person, no facts will change your mind. But if you choose to be open minded, I simply do not see ANY argument for him being an ATG heavyweight, period.

First off, lets start with his record 32-4-1. He has 37 fights total, not very many to begin with. Ask yourself, what great all time heavyweights has he fought? Ali and Foreman are the only two answers.

Ali was a COMPLETELY different fighter after being exiled for three years, he completely lost his legs. This was a technically flawed fighter, but one who was tremendous due to physical gifts. He was a shadow of his former self after returning, any only won big fights afterwards due to outsmarting guys like Foreman. Still, despite this being a much worse Ali, Frazier loses 2 out of the 3 fights. Ali would have absolutely destroyed him pre exile.

Foreman absolutely obliterated Joe Frazier twice. It wasn't even close.

Joe Frazier's record against ATGs: 1-4

His one win being one he'd of never had if he fought Ali pre-exile.

Joe's other best wins are against guys like Jerry Quarry, and Jimmy Ellis, whom absolutely nobody considers ATG heavyweights. He hardly pulled out a decision to Bonavena who knocked him down twice, and nearly beat him. He has quite easily the weakest resume of any person considered an ATG, it's ridiculous. Seriously, had he not fought a watered down Ali with diminished physical gifts, would anyone even be talking about him as a great? ABSOLUTELY NOT. The man is 1-4 against ATGs...

Replace Joe's name with Tyson's....

He beat Ali....

That shits on Mike's entire life....career and all....

[cyrax99]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

Joe Frazier was more diminished in their second and third fights than Ali was in the first. Why are you discrediting one of the best fighters on Ali's record?

Simple, because I don't hold the Frazier wins in anywhere near as high a regard as other people. Unlike Frazier, Ali has plenty of other great wins to solidify his status, his wins against Liston and Foreman are far greater. Without Ali, who would even be talking about Frazier? He wouldn't even be mentioned in the all time great discussions. Yeah, he was past his prime too, but Ali much more so. Ali was a guy like RJJ, who depended extensively on physical gifts, he was a completely different fighter. He had no legs, and was forced to stand and slug, and still beat Frazier two out of the three. Frazier then got completely embarrassed twice against Foreman... Take away his win vs a diminished Ali, and he has absolutely 0 wins against great fighters... It's an abomination that people call him great.

[steviebruno]

He beat just about everyone that the pre-suspension Ali beat.

If his comp was suspect, so was Ali's.

[Bullitt]

Originally Posted by cyrax99

Simple, because I don't hold the Frazier wins in anywhere near as high a regard as other people. Unlike Frazier, Ali has plenty of other great wins to solidify his status, his wins against Liston and Foreman are far greater. Without Ali, who would even be talking about Frazier? He wouldn't even be mentioned in the all time great discussions. Yeah, he was past his prime too, but Ali much more so. Ali was a guy like RJJ, who depended extensively on physical gifts, he was a completely different fighter. He had no legs, and was forced to stand and slug, and still beat Frazier two out of the three. Frazier then got completely embarrassed twice against Foreman... Take away his win vs a diminished Ali, and he has absolutely 0 wins against great fighters... It's an abomination that people call him great.

If Joe was overrated then what does that say about Ali....

He admired Joe and said he was his toughest fights...

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by cyrax99

Simple, because I don't hold the Frazier wins in anywhere near as high a regard as other people. Unlike Frazier, Ali has plenty of other great wins to solidify his status, his wins against Liston and Foreman are far greater. Without Ali, who would even be talking about Frazier? He wouldn't even be mentioned in the all time great discussions. Yeah, he was past his prime too, but Ali much more so. Ali was a guy like RJJ, who depended extensively on physical gifts, he was a completely different fighter. He had no legs, and was forced to stand and slug, and still beat Frazier two out of the three. Frazier then got completely embarrassed twice against Foreman... Take away his win vs a diminished Ali, and he has absolutely 0 wins against great fighters... It's an abomination that people call him great.

Who did George Foreman beat to make him great? The guy who took two of three from Ali?

[Trail]

Originally Posted by IntentionalButt

Just stop.

Pretty much this.

[HEADBANGER]

Originally Posted by lefthook89

fixed, and you know its true

What a racist clown you are, heres a list of my favouite fighters

Leonard
Hagler
Holmes
Benn
Tyson
Calzaghe
Eubank
Lewis
Chavez
Cleverly
Mayweather
Paez


If you have something to add to the thread, please do, if not, then one more bullshit accusation will lead to me grabbing the back of your scrawny neck and uppercutting you 94 times in succession with brutal power and pinpoint accuracy.