Sam Langford vs Rocky Marciano

[orriray59]

Langford is the man.

[Bummy Davis]

Langford would come to Marciano and Rocky was too relentless and hit too hard to come into....an exciting fight while it lasts but Rocky by clean KO, BTW I also like Charles on points over Sam and Walcott by UD...Harry Wills was a standup strait type of guy and easy to hit despite his reach I do not put him at the level of skill of Charles and Walcott and Marciano was the strongest puncher south of a deuce

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Bummy Davis

Langford would come to Marciano and Rocky was too relentless and hit too hard to come into....an exciting fight while it lasts but Rocky by clean KO, BTW I also like Charles on points over Sam and Walcott by UD...Harry Wills was a standup strait type of guy and easy to hit despite his reach I do not put him at the level of skill of Charles and Walcott and Marciano was the strongest puncher south of a deuce

A plausible scenario but one that works both ways,imo.
Not so sure Charles and Walcott could go 15rds without being tagged,and if they were ,I feel they would go.
Langford usually beat Jeannette, was Charles that much better a boxer? Walcott trapped him by showing him the right ,and koing him with the left ,and it only took one of them.
I think it's safe to say Langford hit harder than Walcott, who, because of his elusiveness ,I would give a better chance against Langford than Ezzard.

[HOUDINI]

Langford was one of the greatest fighters ever to live. Wlad is WAYYYYYY short of that standard. He does not possess great fighting skills.

[RockysSplitNose]

Originally Posted by mcvey

A plausible scenario but one that works both ways,imo.
Not so sure Charles and Walcott could go 15rds without being tagged,and if they were ,I feel they would go.
Langford usually beat Jeannette, was Charles that much better a boxer? Walcott trapped him by showing him the right ,and koing him with the left ,and it only took one of them.
I think it's safe to say Langford hit harder than Walcott, who, because of his elusiveness ,I would give a better chance against Langford than Ezzard.

If you're asking if Charles was "that much better a boxer than Jeanette" then you need to watch the Langford Jeanette film and then watch some of Charles' fights - short answer is Charles was a MUCH better boxer than Jeanette.

Plus Walcott's KO of Charles was produced by one of probably the 3 or 4 best single punch KO's in heavyweight history.

As far as Langford-Marciano this is a really difficult pick - my favourite heavyweight and probably my favourite P4P - Sam Langford is literally capable of anything in my opinion but of forced my head would probably have to say Marciano - Langford was definately hittable - and hittable on a much more regular basis than Marciano and if Marciano could hit somebody regular they'd get into a shell where they found it difficult to stop the punches coming at them enough to be able to get their own shots off enough - but Langford looked as tho he could do these lovely clipping shot in close which would help him - I wouldn't say Langford fought in the style of a defence artiste like say an Archie Moore or a jersey Joe and I think it served better to employ some of that to throw Rocky off and make him miss but Langford just didn't fight like that - think Langford would be brave to the point of foolhardiness though - a great enough fighter to be the 2nd man to take the Rock 15 no doubt so - but referee may decide to call it if little Sam starts tumbling to the mat

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose

If you're asking if Charles was "that much better a boxer than Jeanette" then you need to watch the Langford Jeanette film and then watch some of Charles' fights - short answer is Charles was a MUCH better boxer than Jeanette.

Plus Walcott's KO of Charles was produced by one of probably the 3 or 4 best single punch KO's in heavyweight history.

As far as Langford-Marciano this is a really difficult pick - my favourite heavyweight and probably my favourite P4P - Sam Langford is literally capable of anything in my opinion but of forced my head would probably have to say Marciano - Langford was definately hittable - and hittable on a much more regular basis than Marciano and if Marciano could hit somebody regular they'd get into a shell where they found it difficult to stop the punches coming at them enough to be able to get their own shots off enough - but Langford looked as tho he could do these lovely clipping shot in close which would help him - I wouldn't say Langford fought in the style of a defence artiste like say an Archie Moore or a jersey Joe and I think it served better to employ some of that to throw Rocky off and make him miss but Langford just didn't fight like that - think Langford would be brave to the point of foolhardiness though - a great enough fighter to be the 2nd man to take the Rock 15 no doubt so - but referee may decide to call it if little Sam starts tumbling to the mat

Again plausible , but I don't know that Langford was any more hittable than Marciano ,who was in danger of losing against Walcott, Charles and Simmons. I wouldn't take too much notice of Langford walking in wide open against the likes of Lang, and Flynn, I doubt he would be so gung ho against Rocky. And, if Moore ,and Walcott could drop Marciano so could Langford, it might well be Rocky who takes the tumbles.

[HOUDINI]

Langfords defense is hard to judge but based on some of the slow motion videos Ive seen that specifically highlight his skills I would say it was very good. Marciano also was deceptively hard to hit cleanly with his low crouch and constant rolling with shots. Walcott went into his fight with Rocky thinking he could hit him with every shot he threw. In truth he found Marciano to be a tough target.

[RockysSplitNose]

Originally Posted by mcvey

Again plausible , but I don't know that Langford was any more hittable than Marciano ,who was in danger of losing against Walcott, Charles and Simmons. I wouldn't take too much notice of Langford walking in wide open against thre likes of Lang, and Flynn, I doubt he would be so gung ho against Rocky. And, if Moore ,and Walcott could drop Marciano so could Langford, it might well be Rocky who takes the tumbles.

Can't firmly pick either way to be honest - never can when Sam is involved - although I know Sam wouldn't be as gung ho as the Lang fight but even against Jeanette he was still walking into a lot of telegraphed hits full in the face on the way in (not that he even looked bothered by any of it) - he does take a lot more than Marciano - if you watch most of Marciano's title fights and the Louis fight Marciano is very rarely caught with much at all flush and the times he shipped a big one he always seemed to put himself into a position where he couldn't take any more follow up shots without the opponent really having to break his back to do it - plus I wouldn't say that Marciano was ever in danger of losing against Walcott or Charles? Simmons fight I didn't see so can't honestly comment one that one?

[Bummy Davis]

Originally Posted by mcvey

A plausible scenario but one that works both ways,imo.
Not so sure Charles and Walcott could go 15rds without being tagged,and if they were ,I feel they would go.
Langford usually beat Jeannette, was Charles that much better a boxer? Walcott trapped him by showing him the right ,and koing him with the left ,and it only took one of them.
I think it's safe to say Langford hit harder than Walcott, who, because of his elusiveness ,I would give a better chance against Langford than Ezzard.

many scenarios can go 2 ways and I love Sam Langford I just think he would be facing someone stronger than himself and relentless and durable as well,this would be a war while it lasted but Marciano comes out on top for me.

As far as Charles being that much better a boxer,yes I think Charles is superior except for power over Sam but Charles was a cleaner combination puncher...as far as being KO'd by Walcott that was a punch that Charles did not see, like the punch recently that Pac-Man did not see and one thing we know about Walcott he had some of the greatest pin-point power and caught Louis with 3 punches he did not see and Marciano as well among others ...lets not forget Sam was also stopped a few times and by Wills who was a big man but Wills did not possess the skill set of Charles,Walcott or Archie Moore for that matter IMO

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose

Can't firmly pick either way to be honest - never can when Sam is involved - although I know Sam wouldn't be as gung ho as the Lang fight but even against Jeanette he was still walking into a lot of telegraphed hits full in the face on the way in (not that he even looked bothered by any of it) - he does take a lot more than Marciano - if you watch most of Marciano's title fights and the Louis fight Marciano is very rarely caught with much at all flush and the times he shipped a big one he always seemed to put himself into a position where he couldn't take any more follow up shots without the opponent really having to break his back to do it - plus I wouldn't say that Marciano was ever in danger of losing against Walcott or Charles? Simmons fight I didn't see so can't honestly comment one that one?

He was in danger of losing on points against Walcott, if the fight went the other 2 rds he would have lost by decision. Against Charles the second time Marciano was in real danger of being tkod because his nose was split in two . In the Simmons fight Rocky's eye was badly cut, but ,as he usually did, he pulled out the stoppage. Marciano was not hard to tag, but he was hard to tag with big shots. A diminished Louis jabbed his face off.

[RockysSplitNose]

Originally Posted by Bummy Davis

many scenarios can go 2 ways and I love Sam Langford I just think he would be facing someone stronger than himself and relentless and durable as well,this would be a war while it lasted but Marciano comes out on top for me.

As far as Charles being that much better a boxer,yes I think Charles is superior except for power over Sam but Charles was a cleaner combination puncher...as far as being KO'd by Walcott that was a punch that Charles did not see, like the punch recently that Pac-Man did not see and one thing we know about Walcott he had some of the greatest pin-point power and caught Louis with 3 punches he did not see and Marciano as well among others ...lets not forget Sam was also stopped a few times and by Wills who was a big man but Wills did not possess the skill set of Charles,Walcott or Archie Moore for that matter IMO

Concerning thing for me tho Bummy is that he was actually questioning whether Charles was that much better a boxer than Jeanette not Langford?? Sorry if that caused you to choke on your beer or anything haha - I could've understood if he meant Langford? But Jeanette??!

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose

Concerning thing for me tho Bummy is that he was actually questioning whether Charles was that much better a boxer than Jeanette not Langford?? Sorry if that caused you to choke on your beer or anything haha - I could've understood if he meant Langford? But Jeanette??!

I didn't realise you had seen so much extensive footage of Jeannette, footage that enables you to come to such a definite conclusion.
Come to that how much footage have you seen of Langford to make definitive statements about his hittability?
Have you seen him against Hague?

Perhaps you would be good enough to share the footage with the rest of us?

Charles dropped Walcott for a 9 count ,couldn't Langford go one better? Walcott sparked Charles ,couldn't Langford?

[Danmann]

Langford fought in that "hit once, and grab" era. Langford is like Greb, but some footage. People make him legendary, and I don;t see why, not as heavyweight. He is mostly myth. Good in his time, but not best, and he would not be abel to fight Marciano and last. he would not be able to hit Marciano.

[RockysSplitNose]

Originally Posted by mcvey

He was in danger of losing on points against Walcott, if the fight went the other 2 rds he would have lost by decision. Against Charles the second time Marciano was in real danger of being tkod because his nose was split in two . In the Simmons fight Rocky's eye was badly cut, but ,as he usually did, he pulled out the stoppage. Marciano was not hard to tag, but he was hard to tag with big shots. A diminished Louis jabbed his face off.

Did Louis really jab his face off?? really?? I could probably count the number of solid jabs Louis landed in those 8 rounds on my 8 fingers and 2 thumbs (possibly a few toes to maybe but let's not go there) which isn't a huge number in 8 rounds? Louis barely landed anything that really registered on Marciano t all?

[RockysSplitNose]

Originally Posted by mcvey

I didn't realise you had seen so much extensive footage of Jeannette, footage that enables you to come to such a definite conclusion.
Come to that how much footage have you seen of Langford to make definitive statements about his hittability?
Have you seen him against Hague?

Perhaps you would be good enough to share the footage with the rest of us?

Charles dropped Walcott for a 9 count ,couldn't Langford go one better? Walcott sparked Charles ,couldn't Langford?

Not being funny - was only really going of what I've seen which obviously isn't a lot but here is the half an hour long footage of the Langford-Jeanette fight which gives us a very good and extended look at Jeanette - I can definately see from that that he didn't have the fluid boxing of Charles certainly? His balance is all wrong he doesn't have the in and out ability or the poise of Charles and stabs and prods a bit which leads him to just falling in and holding after sticking one punch out.

Ps haven't seen the Langford-Hague footage - would love to though?? Do you have it!?? If so can you PM me about it?