Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

[Synthetic Decay]

Originally Posted by KuRuPT

You act like these flurries ACTUALLY landed the majority of the punches or ACTUALLY did something to hagler.. Neither of which is true. Most of the time they were blocked or didn't land. Sure, some got in there, but most didn't land. But to the crowd.. they got all excited and started screaming about a lot of stuff that didn't land. Point is, why do you need to stop, or more importantly, why are these flurries that didn't land much weighed so heavily. That is the bone of contention here imo.

They weren't, neither landed that much flush. They both landed a few that got each others respect but not a great deal.

But boxing off of the back foot and using movement and angles and then putting yourself in a position to attack, is better than chasing, swinging and then going behind guard. Although as said given the amount of clean punches landed, it's not some definitive expression of pugilism for Leonard, he just looked cleaner with his all around work and craft.

[TheSouthpaw]

Originally Posted by Synthetic Decay

They weren't, neither landed that much flush. They both landed a few that got each others respect but not a great deal.

But boxing off of the back foot and using movement and angles and then putting yourself in a position to attack, is better than chasing, swinging and then going behind guard. Although as said given the amount of clean punches landed, it's not some definitive expression of pugilism for Leonard, he just looked cleaner with his all around work and craft.

[Vyborg1917]

And what about that track meet shit that punctuated every round?

[TheSouthpaw]

Originally Posted by Vyborg1917

And what about that track meet shit that punctuated every round?

What do you mean!?

[MagnaNasakki]

I'd give Hagler credit for it, every round, if every round he CAUSED it. If a guy is running cause he wants to, I can't really score that for the other guy unless he's landing shots, cutting to ring, or slipping punches cleanly. Which Hagler started to do later, though, ironically, more of Leonard's flurries started landing late. That infamous flurry in the 9th? Hagler won the 9th, but Leonard was RIPPING him after he got hurt.

[KuRuPT]

Originally Posted by Synthetic Decay

They weren't, neither landed that much flush. They both landed a few that got each others respect but not a great deal.

But boxing off of the back foot and using movement and angles and then putting yourself in a position to attack, is better than chasing, swinging and then going behind guard. Although as said given the amount of clean punches landed, it's not some definitive expression of pugilism for Leonard, he just looked cleaner with his all around work and craft.

Tell me who landed the harder shots in that fight? You know the answer is Hagler.. Hagler did the most damage in that fight. Who was the agressor and actually made the fight.. Again the answer is hagler. Hagler also did the best body work of the fight. I can list variables that made me believe Hagler won.. just as you listed ones that gave you the impression SRL won. Point is, we're talking about the flurries that did next to nothing to hagler but clearly swayed the judges. Those were key in the fight going to SRL in the judges eyes, but weren't KEY TO THE FIGHT. There is a big distinction there. Furthermore, if you've ever boxed or been in a real fight.. you should know that fighting of your back foot and letting somebody else lead.. is much easier than leading. I've been in numerous fights with bigger guys and that is exactly what I did... move.. angles... back foot counter.. repeat. IMO you don't do what SRL did and really not land all that much and take the title from somebody who landed the harder more telling blows and made the fight.

[TheSouthpaw]

Originally Posted by KuRuPT

Tell me who landed the harder shots in that fight? You know the answer is Hagler.. Hagler did the most damage in that fight. Who was the agressor and actually made the fight.. Again the answer is hagler. Hagler also did the best body work of the fight. I can list variables that made me believe Hagler won.. just as you listed ones that gave you the impression SRL won. Point is, we're talking about the flurries that did next to nothing to hagler but clearly swayed the judges. Those were key in the fight going to SRL in the judges eyes, but weren't KEY TO THE FIGHT. There is a big distinction there. Furthermore, if you've ever boxed or been in a real fight.. you should know that fighting of your back foot and letting somebody else lead.. is much easier than leading. I've been in numerous fights with bigger guys and that is exactly what I did... move.. angles... back foot counter.. repeat. IMO you don't do what SRL did and really not land all that much and take the title from somebody who landed the harder more telling blows and made the fight.

Haglar did...Just not enough obviously!.

[TheSouthpaw]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

I'd give Hagler credit for it, every round, if every round he CAUSED it. If a guy is running cause he wants to, I can't really score that for the other guy unless he's landing shots, cutting to ring, or slipping punches cleanly. Which Hagler started to do later, though, ironically, more of Leonard's flurries started landing late. That infamous flurry in the 9th? Hagler won the 9th, but Leonard was RIPPING him after he got hurt.

Who do you consider was running!?...And why?

[Synthetic Decay]

Originally Posted by KuRuPT

Tell me who landed the harder shots in that fight? You know the answer is Hagler.. Hagler did the most damage in that fight. Who was the agressor and actually made the fight.. Again the answer is hagler. Hagler also did the best body work of the fight. I can list variables that made me believe Hagler won.. just as you listed ones that gave you the impression SRL won. Point is, we're talking about the flurries that did next to nothing to hagler but clearly swayed the judges. Those were key in the fight going to SRL in the judges eyes, but weren't KEY TO THE FIGHT. There is a big distinction there. Furthermore, if you've ever boxed or been in a real fight.. you should know that fighting of your back foot and letting somebody else lead.. is much easier than leading. I've been in numerous fights with bigger guys and that is exactly what I did... move.. angles... back foot counter.. repeat. IMO you don't do what SRL did and really not land all that much and take the title from somebody who landed the harder more telling blows and made the fight.

Well considering that Marv's chin was absolute granite and he was competing against a fighter that's career weight was two divisions south, i would expect him to be visibly landing harder shots than Ray. Ray throwing shoeshine flurries in this fight is a myth, you can see that he is sitting on a fair amount of shots, but as said Marv's chin is ATG top 5 at middleweight, i wouldn't expect him to be stumbling around the ring.

Fighting off of the back foot is not running. As to what is more difficult, i would say that is fighter dependent, there are varying ways of fighting off of the back foot and some are a lot more technically nuanced than others. You expect all fighters regardless of strengths, weaknesses, opponent, to stand in the pocket the whole fight? Ray's work was a lot more coherent than Marv's in this fight and that is what won him the fight in my opinion.

[TheSouthpaw]

Originally Posted by Synthetic Decay

Well considering that Marv's chin was absolute granite and he was competing against a fighter that's career weight was two divisions south, i would expect him to be visibly landing harder shots than Ray. Ray throwing shoeshine flurries in this fight is a myth, you can see that he is sitting on a fair amount of shots, but as said Marv's chin is ATG top 5 at middleweight, i wouldn't expect him to be stumbling around the ring.

Fighting off of the back foot is not running. As to what is more difficult, i would say that is fighter dependent, there are varying ways of fighting off of the back foot and some are a lot more technically nuanced than others. You expect all fighters regardless of strengths, weaknesses, opponent, to stand in the pocket the whole fight? Ray's work was a lot more coherent than Marv's in this fight and that is what won him the fight in my opinion.

Marvin was naturally a harder hitter than Ray..But then again Ray was never really a MW.

[DaveK]

It was 8-4 for Leonard, and I scored it trying to give Hagler the benefit of the doubt the whole way.

He lost.

[TheSouthpaw]

Originally Posted by DaveK

It was 8-4 for Leonard, and I scored it trying to give Hagler the benefit of the doubt the whole way.

He lost.

Damn!..Good shit Dave!..

[DrBanzai]

It was 8-4 for Hagler, Leonard just ran and threw Joe Calzaghe flurries the last 25 seconds of the fight. Actually Joe Calzaghe threw far more powerful punches but that is another thread.

bottom line is the white man loved the uncle Tom Leonard.

[duranimal]

Just watched it AGAIN & on the 10 point must it's 7/5 for Leonard & i was really trying to give Marvin the benifit of the doubt. Marvin took to the 8th ****ing round to start double jabbing Leonard, if only he started out that way. Regardless of SRL's pitter/patter contribution most found the target, Marvin kept switching to orthodox even midway through the fight, jeezus he really blew it.

But i would like peeps on here to consider this mute point, what if SRL was the champion & Marvin the challenger!!! I'll tell you now that no way would you say that Hagler deserved to take the title, if that was Hamsho & not Hagler you would all have said that is was standard SRL fare against a slow plodding one dimensional bum without a jab who just trundled forward throwing crude slow wide arcing swings. Haglers corner was a joke! Not one bit of tactical nous! Zero adjustment until it was to late, the burglar had already ransacked the house the day before the alarm was fitted.

Do you score this contest as a FIGHT or a boxing match!!!! there lies the rub & contention.

I was absolutly sick as a pig that marvin lost, but yer can't blame SRL for Haglers performance. He should have just jumped the cunt from the 1st ring a ding & wore SRL out regardless if SRL got the round he would have been out on his feet by 8 at the latest. If only he had used that famous leaping double jab from the southpaw stance from the start he'd have won this fight.

[Balder]

Leaonard did not deserve to win this fight the way he fought.


Hagler was foolish, and deserved to lose for it.,


Should have been a draw, and Hagler shouold have kept the title.