Sam Langford vs Rocky Marciano

[RockysSplitNose]

Originally Posted by mcvey

I didn't realise you had seen so much extensive footage of Jeannette, footage that enables you to come to such a definite conclusion.
Come to that how much footage have you seen of Langford to make definitive statements about his hittability?
Have you seen him against Hague?

Perhaps you would be good enough to share the footage with the rest of us?

Charles dropped Walcott for a 9 count ,couldn't Langford go one better? Walcott sparked Charles ,couldn't Langford?

Not being funny - was only really going of what I've seen which obviously isn't a lot but here is the half an hour long footage of the Langford-Jeanette fight which gives us a very good and extended look at Jeanette - I can definately see from that that he didn't have the fluid boxing of Charles certainly? His balance is all wrong he doesn't have the in and out ability or the poise of Charles and stabs and prods a bit which leads him to just falling in and holding after sticking one punch out.

Ps haven't seen the Langford-Hague footage - would love to though?? Do you have it!?? If so can you PM me about it?

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose

Not being funny - was only really going of what I've seen which obviously isn't a lot but here is the half an hour long footage of the Langford-Jeanette fight which gives us a very good and extended look at Jeanette - I can definately see from that that he didn't have the fluid boxing of Charles certainly? His balance is all wrong he doesn't have the in and out ability or the poise of Charles and stabs and prods a bit which leads him to just falling in and holding after sticking one punch out.

Ps haven't seen the Langford-Hague footage - would love to though?? Do you have it!?? If so can you PM me about it?

Despite Klompton's doubts I have seen excerpts of the Hague fight , unfortunately not the kd of Langford. If I had it now I would post it for all.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose

Did Louis really jab his face off?? really?? I could probably count the number of solid jabs Louis landed in those 8 rounds on my 8 fingers and 2 thumbs (possibly a few toes to maybe but let's not go there) which isn't a huge number in 8 rounds? Louis barely landed anything that really registered on Marciano t all?

" He couldn't miss me with his jabs I just had to take them".Marciano.

Louis did not have his right hand for the Marciano fight, he shook him a couple of times with left hooks , but his reflexes were gone.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Danmann

Langford fought in that "hit once, and grab" era. Langford is like Greb, but some footage. People make him legendary, and I don;t see why, not as heavyweight. He is mostly myth. Good in his time, but not best, and he would not be abel to fight Marciano and last. he would not be able to hit Marciano.

I am sure having seen your previous contributions, we will all give your response the credibility it deserves.

[janitor]

It is entirely plausible that Langford could have taken Marciano.

[RockysSplitNose]

Originally Posted by mcvey

" He couldn't miss me with his jabs I just had to take them".Marciano.

Louis did not have his right hand for the Marciano fight, he shook him a couple of times with left hooks , but his reflexes were gone.

Great poster McVey - ref the Marciano quote I suspect Marciano wanted to say some good things about Joe because he loved the guy - all I need to do is watch the films to know with my own eyes that Louis barely registered at all on Marciano though - ps gutted you don't have The Hague fight - what was your impression of the bits you saw?

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose

Great poster McVey - ref the Marciano quote I suspect Marciano wanted to say some good things about Joe because he loved the guy - all I need to do is watch the films to know with my own eyes that Louis barely registered at all on Marciano though - ps gutted you don't have The Hague fight - what was your impression of the bits you saw?

My impression is probably influenced by what I've read of the fight since.

Excerpts of the first two rounds and the ko in the 4th . Why on earth the knockdown of Langford is not on the super 8mm film Ie no idea
Langford walks his way around Hague who is a stocky block of a fighter.Hague looks very crude and fleshy,but he absorbs punches quite well before Langford lowers the boom in the 4th round with a right cross that catches Hague flush and ko's him ,and I mean kos him, he is out senseless.
Langford's knockdown happened in the 3rd round but I haven't seen it apparently he walked into Hague's patented right swing and was bowled over.
Hague is said to have gone right hand mad then ,while Langford covered up , concentrating on riding out the storm. Class asserted itself in the 4th and final round, from memory and bearing in mind it is only 4 rds, It looked like Secretariat running against a donkey.

[lufcrazy]

This should really have a poll due to the genuine debate it's generated on both sides.

[lufcrazy]

Every so often I need to humbley take a step back and go over my notes. For some reason I'd recently come to the belief that Langford didnt do that much until 1912 and wasn't anything special until a fully fledged hw.

However looking at his record again, between 1907-1914 he fought a who's who bar Johnson (who he probably would have lost to) whilst weighing 175-200 depending on the opponent and distance. In this time he only truly lost to mcvey and Clark who he knocked out during the same time. He had disputed losses to Flynn and smith but due to conflicting reports i probably call them a draw for analysis purposes.

If I'm to say his prime probably ended with the Clark rematch (he had previously destroyed Clark and went on to be very inconsistent from then on). It could be argued the only man to beat a peak version of him was McVey a man who he did prove superiority over.

I can't believe I'm gonna say this but i think I'd actually started to underrate Langford.

I need to rethink my standing of this man!

[Theron]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

This should really have a poll due to the genuine debate it's generated on both sides.

Okay

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

This should really have a poll due to the genuine debate it's generated on both sides.

To be honest, either man winning is plausible .

[RockysSplitNose]

Originally Posted by mcvey

My impression is probably influenced by what I've read of the fight since.

Excerpts of the first two rounds and the ko in the 4th . Why on earth the knockdown of Langford is not on the super 8mm film Ie no idea
Langford walks his way around Hague who is a stocky block of a fighter.Hague looks very crude and fleshy,but he absorbs punches quite well before Langford lowers the boom in the 4th round with a right cross that catches Hague flush and ko's him ,and I mean kos him, he is out senseless.
Langford's knockdown happened in the 3rd round but I haven't seen it apparently he walked into Hague's patented right swing and was bowled over.
Hague is said to have gone right hand mad then ,while Langford covered up , concentrating on riding out the storm. Class asserted itself in the 4th and final round, from memory and bearing in mind it is only 4 rds, It looked like Secretariat running against a donkey.

Cheers for that McVey - what was the right hand that Langford finished it with like? - could you compare it with any other ones you've seen in terms of power and effect etc just as a guage?

[lufcrazy]

Rewatched all the footage I can find of Sam.

It seems the main weapons against him was clinches by the bigger men, Sam seemd to hand himself surprisingly well in these situations being able to match for strength and be the quicker puncher on the inside (Obviously these are two advantages Johnson would still have held at any point in his career). When at mid range Sam had a great arsenal of shots and impeccable timing.

I know he twice quit on his stool as a youngster but during his prime years he never really came close to being stopped. Him vs Rocky would have to be a shootout I think.

Langford probably hit just as hard and quicker with better accuracy but would he have the firepower to finish Rocky off? I'm sure he could hurt Rocky but finishing him is another matter. Same with the roll reversal Rocky I'm sure Rocky could hurt Sam but would he finish him? Or even hit him often enough to warrant a finish?

I've rendered my prior opinion on this fight moot as I need to mull it over some more.

I'm elevating Sam into my elite cruiser category alongside Tunney, Rocky, Dempsey and Holy.

Difficult to pick between these guys.

[janitor]

I honestly wouldn't bet a second hand wheelbarrow against Langford beating anybody.

Thats how dangerous he was.

[lufcrazy]

In the CW division I think I agree Janitor.

drained to lhw might change things, in against bigger hw's might change that also.