duran v leonard greatness comparison.

[ripcity]

Was Duran a greater lightweight than Leonard was a welterweight? No Leonard beat 3 oppoents who are sure thing hall of famers. At points in their careers that they were still at worse pretty good, Benitez, Hearns and Duran. Duran beat one, Buchanan

Was Duran's victory over Leonard greater than Leonard's over Hagler? Yes
Welterweight Leonard is a better boxer than Middleweight Hagler.
Does Duran compare to Leonard resume wise across a whole career? No, When they faced the absulte best Leonard came out on top all but once, to Duran of all people. Duran only came out on top once, beating Leonard.
Compareing common oppoents Hearns, Benitez and Hagler. Leonard is 3-0,-1 Duran is 0-3. If you add the three fights with each other Leonard is 5-1-1, and Duran is 1-5. Neither Leonard or Duran were washed up at the time of any of these fights. Duran is also hurt here by losses to good boxers, but not at his level boxers: De Jeus, Laing and Sims. Leonard only has Noris.

Does Duran compare to Leonard skillwise in a peak for peak comparison? No. Leonard is more well rounded than Duran. One could argue that Duran is the best ever presure fighter, brawler.I'd go with Armstrong though. Leonard could also go toe to toe with the best. Look at Their first fight. Leonard went punch for Punch with Duran. Leonard was more than that, and he applied the approite tactic more often than not.

Does Duran's weight hopping compare to Leonard's Yes, Neather was going to stay at 135 and 147 their whole carers.

For casual fans it seems Leonard it the default choice for greater boxer. For hardcore fans it seems Duran is default choice for greater boxer. I see what you did there. It seemes that the casual fans have it right. I would say that casual fans are fimilar with the work of both Leonard and Duran, and rate them both highly. If by Hardcore fans, you mean fans who consider boxing among our favrote sports, Leonard ranks highly as well.

I've seen lots of debate on the trilogy between these two but not as much debate on who should be greater and, more importantly, why.It seems to be a pretty common debate.

[lufcrazy]

There's been some good answers that are unfortunately tainted with bias.

I mean yeah Duran bloated before the rematch, but that's entirely his fault. With 5 month notice he had every opportunity to train like a champion. And yeah he waited for the Hagler fight but in fairness he was old and 5 years retired whilt Hagler had just stopped his number 1 contender.

Very difficult for me to choose thus far.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69

I would say that I rate them on the same tier....They were both dominant in their respective weight classes and I rate both @ # 2 ATG in those respective divisions (Only behind SRR and Benny...although for Duran I have fluctuated w/ Gans as well). While they have opposing skill sets I would say that they are again fairly level.

I do rate Duran slightly higher in the 8-12 range and SRL in the 12-20 range (It has been a while since I have compiled a revised list???), but I would still call that same tier. I might blink if I saw someone rate SRL higher (although not so much if we were to just limit this evaluation @ LW/WW with nothing else factoring in., but I wouldn't say it was an outrage, just that I don't see it the same way...

I am not a big SRL fan (although I don't really dislike him), nor of Duran (although the gap between my levels of like is very wide indeed) so perhaps even though I try and maintain an unbiased viewpoint, I could still be unfair in this regards.

At their greatest weights,they were about level. I'd give the edge to Duran because of longevity at the weight. Apart from his loss to Esteban De Jesus in their first fight,Duran was dominant at that poundage for a good six/seven years. Leonard's career was curtailed at welterweight,as we all know, because of his eye injury. Leonard has the edge on quality opponents,though.

[dinovelvet]

Ray is a 4 weight world champ.
Which is more commendable, Duran starting off fighting bums or Ray cleaning house in the olympics and winning a gold medal?
Ray moving up in weight was a conscious decision to beat the main men at the weight's whereas in Durans case it was a result of not staying in shape.
Fighting on till he was 50 is the same as what Roy Jones Jr is doing now and does not make him greater. He has not one decent win after Ray in 1989.
Duran was great , no doubt, but this thread needs to be balanced out a bit.
You attempted to pull the thread for Duran by claiming Duran is for hardcore fans where Ray is for casual fans, which is a load of bullshit.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

Ray is a 4 weight world champ.
Which is more commendable, Duran starting off fighting bums or Ray cleaning house in the olympics and winning a gold medal?
Ray moving up in weight was a conscious decision to beat the main men at the weight's whereas in Durans case it was a result of not staying in shape.
Fighting on till he was 50 is the same as what Roy Jones Jr is doing now and does not make him greater. He has not one decent win after Ray in 1989.
Duran was great , no doubt, but this thread needs to be balanced out a bit.
You attempted to pull the thread for Duran by claiming Duran is for hardcore fans where Ray is for casual fans, which is a load of bullshit.

I wasn't attempting to pull no thread. I was giving a personal reflection on my early opinion compared to my latter opinion as a lot of new fans know Duran only for his 80's fights.

Infact I did this thread because I personally am leaning towards a vote for Leonard and was seeing if someone could convince me otherwise as they did years ago.

You couldn't really have been more wrong.

[orriray59]

Leonard cherrypicked opponents.

Did I really just see that?

[dinovelvet]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

I wasn't attempting to pull no thread. I was giving a personal reflection on my early opinion compared to my latter opinion as a lot of new fans know Duran only for his 80's fights.

Infact I did this thread because I personally am leaning towards a vote for Leonard and was seeing if someone could convince me otherwise as they did years ago.

You couldn't really have been more wrong.

Fair enough. But you did make that comparsion. In terms of who is a more skilled fighter, i think Ray is.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

Fair enough. But you did make that comparsion. In terms of who is a more skilled fighter, i think Ray is.

Yeah because from a personal point of view I that is how my opinion developed.

Skillwise I give the edge to Duran I think.

Resume Leonard is better imo but Achievement wise I used to place Duran higher, now I'm not so sure.

[recycling]

Duran is a brawler who quit. Is there anything else to be said

[orriray59]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Yeah because from a personal point of view I that is how my opinion developed.

Skillwise I give the edge to Duran I think.

Resume Leonard is better imo but Achievement wise I used to place Duran higher, now I'm not so sure.

I agree with this.

[dyna]

Originally Posted by recycling

Duran is a brawler who quit. Is there anything else to be said

That you're an idiot, yes.

[lufcrazy]

fuck it. I'm going with Duran by a cunt hair.

The two belong next to each other but prime for prime I pick Duran to win so he's edging it. Both in the 15-10 range and both greater than barney Ross.

[Addie]

I disagree with the consensus. Duran had a fantastic career, and was obviously incredible at his brilliant best, but I don't think he was harder to beat or a better fighter than Leonard at his best. In fact, I think New Orleans Leonard beats any version of Duran. Reg Guttridge once said that he was slightly disappointed by Duran getting destroyed by Hearns and that it hurts his legacy. That's ridiculous, Hearns was a monster of a man, but what should be called into question is his loss to Wilfred Benitez. Duran was thoroughly outboxed, and for man who's considered to be among the most skilled operators to have ever laced them up, it's disappointing that he was never able to change it up against Benitez, the same man who was outboxed and well beaten by both Ray and Hearns. Duran can usually fall back on an excuse to do with lack of training or too much partying, but he was ready for Benitez...he was just outboxed. Poor showing. Can you imagine if Ray was outboxed as thoroughly as Duran was in his match-up with Benitez? He'd have been crucified on the Classic.

...And for all of that, I voted for Duran. The man had a greater career given his weight jumping and his two incredible, mind-blowing wins over Leonard and Barkley, I just don't think he was a better fighter than Leonard on both of their best days.

[lora]

At the same rough time frame in his career, he was getting horribly sodomised by Terry Norris.

I find it hard to compare the two in a lot of ways, because Leonard's initial career was so brief.When he came back he was already bigger than the sport in a way few fighters ever get and able to cherrypick in the truest sense of the word.No need to be active and actually fight worthy fighter one after the other anymore for him.

Duran on the other hand already had a good length career before he started eating through the divisions and became less impressive and consistent.

[Addie]

Originally Posted by lora

At the same rough time frame in his career, he was getting horribly sodomised by Terry Norris.

It's all relative, Lora.

Ray Leonard was a shot item by the time he fought Terry Norris. We can say that for absolute certain given the performance itself and the fact his only fight after that was an even more embarrassing display and beating against the former Super Featherweight champion Hector Camacho.

Duran was still a world class fighter in 1982, and we can say that given the performances he would later go on to show against the likes of Moore, Hagler, and Barkley. So the reason for him being outboxed and well beaten by Benitez had nothing to do with it simply not being there any more physically, he just didn't have the ability to change strategy. That should be held against him, in my opinion.