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View Poll Results: who is greater?
Duran 45 62.50%
Leonard 12 16.67%
Same tier 15 20.83%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-19-2013, 04:34 AM   #31
Stevie G
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69 View Post
I would say that I rate them on the same tier....They were both dominant in their respective weight classes and I rate both @ # 2 ATG in those respective divisions (Only behind SRR and Benny...although for Duran I have fluctuated w/ Gans as well). While they have opposing skill sets I would say that they are again fairly level.

I do rate Duran slightly higher in the 8-12 range and SRL in the 12-20 range (It has been a while since I have compiled a revised list???), but I would still call that same tier. I might blink if I saw someone rate SRL higher (although not so much if we were to just limit this evaluation @ LW/WW with nothing else factoring in., but I wouldn't say it was an outrage, just that I don't see it the same way...

I am not a big SRL fan (although I don't really dislike him), nor of Duran (although the gap between my levels of like is very wide indeed) so perhaps even though I try and maintain an unbiased viewpoint, I could still be unfair in this regards.

At their greatest weights,they were about level. I'd give the edge to Duran because of longevity at the weight. Apart from his loss to Esteban De Jesus in their first fight,Duran was dominant at that poundage for a good six/seven years. Leonard's career was curtailed at welterweight,as we all know, because of his eye injury. Leonard has the edge on quality opponents,though.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:47 AM   #32
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Ray is a 4 weight world champ.
Which is more commendable, Duran starting off fighting bums or Ray cleaning house in the olympics and winning a gold medal?
Ray moving up in weight was a conscious decision to beat the main men at the weight's whereas in Durans case it was a result of not staying in shape.
Fighting on till he was 50 is the same as what Roy Jones Jr is doing now and does not make him greater. He has not one decent win after Ray in 1989.
Duran was great , no doubt, but this thread needs to be balanced out a bit.
You attempted to pull the thread for Duran by claiming Duran is for hardcore fans where Ray is for casual fans, which is a load of bullshit.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:19 AM   #33
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
Ray is a 4 weight world champ.
Which is more commendable, Duran starting off fighting bums or Ray cleaning house in the olympics and winning a gold medal?
Ray moving up in weight was a conscious decision to beat the main men at the weight's whereas in Durans case it was a result of not staying in shape.
Fighting on till he was 50 is the same as what Roy Jones Jr is doing now and does not make him greater. He has not one decent win after Ray in 1989.
Duran was great , no doubt, but this thread needs to be balanced out a bit.
You attempted to pull the thread for Duran by claiming Duran is for hardcore fans where Ray is for casual fans, which is a load of bullshit.
I wasn't attempting to pull no thread. I was giving a personal reflection on my early opinion compared to my latter opinion as a lot of new fans know Duran only for his 80's fights.

Infact I did this thread because I personally am leaning towards a vote for Leonard and was seeing if someone could convince me otherwise as they did years ago.

You couldn't really have been more wrong.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:48 AM   #34
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I wasn't attempting to pull no thread. I was giving a personal reflection on my early opinion compared to my latter opinion as a lot of new fans know Duran only for his 80's fights.

Infact I did this thread because I personally am leaning towards a vote for Leonard and was seeing if someone could convince me otherwise as they did years ago.

You couldn't really have been more wrong.
Fair enough. But you did make that comparsion. In terms of who is a more skilled fighter, i think Ray is.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:37 AM   #35
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
Fair enough. But you did make that comparsion. In terms of who is a more skilled fighter, i think Ray is.
Yeah because from a personal point of view I that is how my opinion developed.

Skillwise I give the edge to Duran I think.

Resume Leonard is better imo but Achievement wise I used to place Duran higher, now I'm not so sure.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:50 AM   #36
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Duran is a brawler who quit. Is there anything else to be said
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:10 AM   #37
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Duran is a brawler who quit. Is there anything else to be said
That you're an idiot, yes.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:21 PM   #38
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

**** it. I'm going with Duran by a cunt hair.

The two belong next to each other but prime for prime I pick Duran to win so he's edging it. Both in the 15-10 range and both greater than barney Ross.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:34 PM   #39
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

I disagree with the consensus. Duran had a fantastic career, and was obviously incredible at his brilliant best, but I don't think he was harder to beat or a better fighter than Leonard at his best. In fact, I think New Orleans Leonard beats any version of Duran. Reg Guttridge once said that he was slightly disappointed by Duran getting destroyed by Hearns and that it hurts his legacy. That's ridiculous, Hearns was a monster of a man, but what should be called into question is his loss to Wilfred Benitez. Duran was thoroughly outboxed, and for man who's considered to be among the most skilled operators to have ever laced them up, it's disappointing that he was never able to change it up against Benitez, the same man who was outboxed and well beaten by both Ray and Hearns. Duran can usually fall back on an excuse to do with lack of training or too much partying, but he was ready for Benitez...he was just outboxed. Poor showing. Can you imagine if Ray was outboxed as thoroughly as Duran was in his match-up with Benitez? He'd have been crucified on the Classic.

...And for all of that, I voted for Duran. The man had a greater career given his weight jumping and his two incredible, mind-blowing wins over Leonard and Barkley, I just don't think he was a better fighter than Leonard on both of their best days.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:40 PM   #40
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

At the same rough time frame in his career, he was getting horribly sodomised by Terry Norris.

I find it hard to compare the two in a lot of ways, because Leonard's initial career was so brief.When he came back he was already bigger than the sport in a way few fighters ever get and able to cherrypick in the truest sense of the word.No need to be active and actually fight worthy fighter one after the other anymore for him.

Duran on the other hand already had a good length career before he started eating through the divisions and became less impressive and consistent.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:47 PM   #41
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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At the same rough time frame in his career, he was getting horribly sodomised by Terry Norris.
It's all relative, Lora.

Ray Leonard was a shot item by the time he fought Terry Norris. We can say that for absolute certain given the performance itself and the fact his only fight after that was an even more embarrassing display and beating against the former Super Featherweight champion Hector Camacho.

Duran was still a world class fighter in 1982, and we can say that given the performances he would later go on to show against the likes of Moore, Hagler, and Barkley. So the reason for him being outboxed and well beaten by Benitez had nothing to do with it simply not being there any more physically, he just didn't have the ability to change strategy. That should be held against him, in my opinion.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:54 PM   #42
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

yeah, i was only being half serious with the Norris comparison anyway.I know Leonard was weight drained and finished in that fight.

Duran had declined physically by 82 as well though.Add in Benitez being a special talent himself and still at his best, it's not too shocking a defeat in itself, though i agree it was a poor performance that he deserves criticism for.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:57 PM   #43
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Originally Posted by lora View Post
yeah, i was only being half serious with the Norris comparison anyway.I know Leonard was weight drained and finished in that fight.

Duran had declined physically by 82 as well though.Add in Benitez being a special talent himself and still at his best, it's not too shocking a defeat in itself, though i agree it was a poor performance that he deserves criticism for.
It's not a shocking result, but I think Duran deserves criticism for the showing he put in. That's all I'm saying. Benitez deserves so much kudos for the performance and victory.

As I say, I consider Duran to have been greater than Leonard regardless.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:00 PM   #44
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Originally Posted by Addie View Post
I disagree with the consensus. Duran had a fantastic career, and was obviously incredible at his brilliant best, but I don't think he was harder to beat or a better fighter than Leonard at his best. In fact, I think New Orleans Leonard beats any version of Duran. Reg Guttridge once said that he was slightly disappointed by Duran getting destroyed by Hearns and that it hurts his legacy. That's ridiculous, Hearns was a monster of a man, but what should be called into question is his loss to Wilfred Benitez. Duran was thoroughly outboxed, and for man who's considered to be among the most skilled operators to have ever laced them up, it's disappointing that he was never able to change it up against Benitez, the same man who was outboxed and well beaten by both Ray and Hearns. Duran can usually fall back on an excuse to do with lack of training or too much partying, but he was ready for Benitez...he was just outboxed. Poor showing. Can you imagine if Ray was outboxed as thoroughly as Duran was in his match-up with Benitez? He'd have been crucified on the Classic.

...And for all of that, I voted for Duran. The man had a greater career given his weight jumping and his two incredible, mind-blowing wins over Leonard and Barkley, I just don't think he was a better fighter than Leonard on both of their best days.

Given that Duran was a very elite lightweight and Leonard a very elite welterweight "on their best days", why would Leonard beating Duran count for so much? Honestly even if you rated them the same, common sense would have to tell you that Leonard being the naturally bigger fighter should be able to beat Duran. The fact that he didn't is an amazing accomplishment for Duran.

As I re-read your post I realized this is essentially what you said..
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:30 PM   #45
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Ray getting KO'd by a past prime feather fisted former featherweight in Camacho will forever taint his legacy.


Duran is better without question.

Duran jumped two divisions to beat the younger, bigger, lessshop worn , faster & stronger champ in Ray , where Ray had two wait until the champ two division north was faded before he grew some balls to step in with him , which was around 4 years after Duran took Hagler the distance.
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