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Old 01-19-2013, 03:46 PM   #76
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Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

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Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose View Post
Yes Brennan was outpointed by Greb - but did the fact that Joey Maxim was (for all intents and purposes) (discounting freak heatwave) beaten by Ray Robinson mean that Joey Maxim wasn't a decent name to have on your record? (for anyone who had Maxims name on their record)? Brennan was a tough tough guy and a very awkward and competitive opponent to face as he proved versus Dempsey on film - Greb just happened to be a pound for pound freak like Langford - losses to either of them doesn't really reduce your level of ability - the experience against guys like that only makes for a more seasoned fighter IMO
for maxims sake lets stick with what we know: maxim beat robinson. IF robinson had beaten joey it would have affected his record. same as any loss but he didnt
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:44 PM   #77
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Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

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for maxims sake lets stick with what we know: maxim beat robinson. IF robinson had beaten joey it would have affected his record. same as any loss but he didnt
You know what I mean Crawler!! We all know Welterweight Robinson was winning pretty much a shutout against Lightheavyweight Joey Maxim and if there hadn't been the heatwave then Robby would've walked off with every round and the decision! My point was like that kind of a defeat shouldn't deflect from how good a fighter Maxim was in his own right and likewise Middleweight Greb being able to hand Brennan a points defeat shouldn't suddenly denegrate Brennan into a terrible fighter either - Brennan was a good fighter full stop
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:09 PM   #78
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Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

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Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose View Post
You know what I mean Crawler!! We all know Welterweight Robinson was winning pretty much a shutout against Lightheavyweight Joey Maxim and if there hadn't been the heatwave then Robby would've walked off with every round and the decision! My point was like that kind of a defeat shouldn't deflect from how good a fighter Maxim was in his own right and likewise Middleweight Greb being able to hand Brennan a points defeat shouldn't suddenly denegrate Brennan into a terrible fighter either - Brennan was a good fighter full stop
I would entertain this line of thinking but for the fact that Greb beat Brennan FOUR TIMES.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:15 PM   #79
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Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

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You know what I mean Crawler!! We all know Welterweight Robinson was winning pretty much a shutout against Lightheavyweight Joey Maxim and if there hadn't been the heatwave then Robby would've walked off with every round and the decision! My point was like that kind of a defeat shouldn't deflect from how good a fighter Maxim was in his own right and likewise Middleweight Greb being able to hand Brennan a points defeat shouldn't suddenly denegrate Brennan into a terrible fighter either - Brennan was a good fighter full stop
Fair Point rocky just want to make sure Joey gets his due. but youre right if you watch the fight you can clearly see Robinson dominating and the loss certainly should not reflect poorly on him
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:29 PM   #80
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Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Robinson had either a poorly concieved or poorly executed game plan for the conditions.

Oh, and I believe they had an air conditioner in Maxim's corner.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:23 PM   #81
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Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

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I would entertain this line of thinking but for the fact that Greb beat Brennan FOUR TIMES.
Yeah and Robby would've beat Maxim 3 times aswell what's your point? My point still stands - I think Roy Jones would've beaten John Ruiz 3 times over aswell but it doesn't change the fact that amongst jeavyweights he was a capable enough fighter to beat Evander Holyfield see my point these results aren't really a surprise - Greb was literally one of the top 2 fighters in history - what? Are u expecting Brennan to beat one of the top 2 fighters of all time? My point was Brennan was a good fighter period - just illustrating its not mind blowing that one of the 2 best fighters of all time was able to best him a few times - Greb was what, 25/30 pounds at the disadvantage - hell Billy Conn was only a coupla rounds of careful boxing from beating the great Joe Louis - Greb could do things with heavyweights that heavyweights couldn't do that's why Brennan (a good heavyweight in his own right) couldn't pin him down
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:24 PM   #82
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Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

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Robinson had either a poorly concieved or poorly executed game plan for the conditions.

Oh, and I believe they had an air conditioner in Maxim's corner.
Haha you are a troll
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:22 PM   #83
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Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

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Arcel saw Dempsey from ringside...... did you? Arcel was one of boxings all time greatest trainers...are you? Rest my case. Your opinion is close to worthless and certainly does not override expert opinion from those with firsthand knowledge.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:27 PM   #84
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Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

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Originally Posted by Synthetic Decay View Post
No, just no. Everything.
What is this even supposed to mean? What HOFer did Mayweather or Calzaghe beat on their way to becoming a titleholder?
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:39 PM   #85
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Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Joey Maxim was excellent. He didn't normally fight like a zombie. Poor chap was sweltering hot and needed to conserve his energy. Robinson, with his lack of size and all, expended far too much of his. Fair fight.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:43 PM   #86
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Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

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Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose View Post
Haha you are a troll
The results back up my statement.

It ain't trolling if it's true.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:56 PM   #87
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Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

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The results back up my statement.

It ain't trolling if it's true.
People can always pick apart a fighters resume and make it sounds bad but then when Rockyssplitnose picked apart Ali before the title he made your argument seem dumb which really it is, why judge a fighter on who he fought before he became champ it dosent really change anything, just cause you dont like him dosent mean hes bad
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:52 PM   #88
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Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Every champion on the way up fought his fair share of easy opponents before getting a title shot. That's the objective after all isn't it? You have a potential diamond in the rough so you get him as many wins as you can, get him publicity and bring him along slowly and carefully without jeopardizing a shot at the title and big money. Seamus' and Rocky Split Noses' posts illustrated this. Dempsey and Ali both fought thier fair share of tomato cans on the way up as did many other champions. This is nothing out of the ordinary and this is why I tend to rate fighters on a head to head basis. We can pick apart any champions resume if we try but we can only take educated guesses as to how a fighter would do against a fellow champion from another era based upon thier relative fighting ability. This is why I feel that a prime Dempsey would've been a tough night for anyone regardless of who he fought before winning the title.
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:57 AM   #89
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Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

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Originally Posted by gentleman jim View Post
Every champion on the way up fought his fair share of easy opponents before getting a title shot. That's the objective after all isn't it? You have a potential diamond in the rough so you get him as many wins as you can, get him publicity and bring him along slowly and carefully without jeopardizing a shot at the title and big money. Seamus' and Rocky Split Noses' posts illustrated this. Dempsey and Ali both fought thier fair share of tomato cans on the way up as did many other champions. This is nothing out of the ordinary and this is why I tend to rate fighters on a head to head basis. We can pick apart any champions resume if we try but we can only take educated guesses as to how a fighter would do against a fellow champion from another era based upon thier relative fighting ability. This is why I feel that a prime Dempsey would've been a tough night for anyone regardless of who he fought before winning the title.
gj,WELL SAID ...Yes we can pick apart any fighter we do NOT FAVOR. ANY
FIGHTER...And BECAUSE a Jack Dempsey, a Jack Johnson, a Joe Louis, because they did not face the quality of contenders, FOR THE MOST PART
that Ali faced,[ because no one can pick the year of their birth ],doesn't
mean that a Clay/Ali would defeat any of the 3 fighters I mention H2H.
Not at all. And for some younger posters who disparage fighters who fought before the age of television as being "primitive " in their abilities,
well a Ray Arcel and others who saw them all, thought OTHERWISE, and
so do I...Cheers jm...
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:11 AM   #90
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Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

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Originally Posted by Rex Tickard View Post
What is this even supposed to mean? What HOFer did Mayweather or Calzaghe beat on their way to becoming a titleholder?
Synthetic Decay is just Pro Anti, hates everything it seems like
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