Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-20-2013, 01:15 AM   #91
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,152
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theron View Post
People can always pick apart a fighters resume and make it sounds bad but then when Rockyssplitnose picked apart Ali before the title he made your argument seem dumb which really it is, why judge a fighter on who he fought before he became champ it dosent really change anything, just cause you dont like him dosent mean hes bad
You have completely missed the point so let me spell it out again.

I used to forgive Dempsey's shitty title reign, his duck of his two best opponents, the cynical set-ups like Darcy and Carpentier and Miske, the lengthy stretches of inactivity, by rationalizing that his run to the title was so brilliant as to overshadow those shortcomings.

Well, it wasn't brilliant. He beat a good Fulton and a middling Brennan, a fighter the avoided Greb whipped 4 times. At least Ali had 12 years of championship-level fighting to prove his salt. Dempsey in the end is just a lot of hyperbole and a lot of simps who have bought that hyperbole.
Seamus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-20-2013, 02:03 AM   #92
Manassa
-
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ESB since '05
Posts: 3,883
vCash: 75
Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Seamus, I don't believe you're going to win this one, no matter how much we both wish you would.

Some people...
Manassa is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 02:27 AM   #93
Theron
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,299
vCash: 773
Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
Seamus, I don't believe you're going to win this one, no matter how much we both wish you would.
I think this guys right you should listen up Seamus
Theron is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 02:44 AM   #94
Johnstown
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Johnstown PA
Posts: 2,850
vCash: 500
Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

his win over gunboat smith was a very good win.
Johnstown is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 02:47 AM   #95
Johnstown
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Johnstown PA
Posts: 2,850
vCash: 500
Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Seamus you seem kind of full of shit...i did the same thing you did..went and clicked on box rec, looked at dempseys record. Yes he had some barn storming fights where he destroyed no hoppers..but than you also argue that most of the name fighters were worthless wins as well, because they had lost many recent fights. I looked at the records, all those name fighters had lost close tough fights to other name fighters, and those loses had in almost all cases been close tough fights. Dempsey went in and blew them out of the water. I am not in the mood to go in and start copy and pasting records, but i will do that if need be when i wake up.
Johnstown is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 02:48 AM   #96
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,152
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
Seamus, I don't believe you're going to win this one, no matter how much we both wish you would.

Some people...
You merely stating this does not make it so. Attack the evidence. Outside of Fulton, it was a middling run to the title followed by a middling reign.
Seamus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 02:50 AM   #97
Theron
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,299
vCash: 773
Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
You merely stating this does not make it so. Attack the evidence. Outside of Fulton, it was a middling run to the title followed by a middling reign.
No reply to Johnstown he makes a great point
Theron is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 03:06 AM   #98
MadcapMaxie
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,406
vCash: 500
Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Look at the early opponents of any heavyweight champion in history and you'll see a very similiar story. Foreman is consistantly ranked above Dempsey in Heavyweight lists, and look at his opponents before winning the title.

You seriously need to get over Dempsey, Seamus the fact you did all that research simply in order to trash on the man is pretty sad.
MadcapMaxie is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 03:08 AM   #99
Johnstown
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Johnstown PA
Posts: 2,850
vCash: 500
Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Seamus discounts the barnstormers, and thats fine..although i think knocking out anyone in 10 seconds is impressive..still..we can discount that..but than he discounts the complete destrucation of legitimate contenders because they have loses on there records. Almost everyone, especially back than, had loses....
Johnstown is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 03:13 AM   #100
Theron
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,299
vCash: 773
Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
Look at the early opponents of any heavyweight champion in history and you'll see a very similiar story. Foreman is consistantly ranked above Dempsey in Heavyweight lists, and look at his opponents before winning the title.

You seriously need to get over Dempsey, Seamus the fact you did all that research simply in order to trash on the man is pretty sad.
Theron is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 04:10 AM   #101
Bob_N_Weave
newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 49
vCash: 500
Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Jack Dempsey was a bad mother****er. The way he destroyed Jess Willard, by gee that guy had power.
Bob_N_Weave is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 05:20 AM   #102
Shake
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,587
vCash: 75
Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theron View Post
I think this guys right you should listen up Seamus
...
Shake is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 05:46 AM   #103
kingfisher3
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: south london
Posts: 684
vCash: 500
Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

from the context of doing what he needed to get a title shot, it was a good smart run with avenged defeats. from the context of 'who has the greatest resume ever', its not dempsey.

seamus's description of 'it was a middling run to the title followed by a middling reign' seems fair. the manner of the victories was impressive and dempsey was imo a better fighter (on film) than you might think from his resume.
kingfisher3 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 06:00 AM   #104
RockysSplitNose
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: East Midlands in England
Posts: 3,935
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
At least Ali had 12 years of championship-level fighting to prove his salt. Dempsey in the end is just a lot of hyperbole and a lot of simps who have bought that hyperbole.
12 years of "championship level fighting? OK? AGAIN lets see??

2 dodgy fights versus Liston with unsatisfactory ending which left more questions than they answered?

Tippy tapping his way against a past it Floyd who spent most of the fight struggling with a bad back before the ref and the crowd got sick of it?

Being given a body beating by Chuvalo who had lost to Joe Erskine (!!??) - yeah really great fighter there!!? Joe Erskine?? Not to mention Pete Rademacher and veteran leftovers from the 50's Bob Baker and Howard King - shows the championship level must've dropped a little since the 50's there

Henry Cooper who actually dominated the fight (AGAIN) until - what everyone knew would happen - happened and Cooper was stifled by a horrendous cut - yeah Ali really proved himself in that one didn't he

Then embarrassed the title against Brian London - London shouldn't have even been allowed in the same town as a title fight - he wasn't even the top heavy in his own country?

Karl Mildenberger? Fairly average really again took Ali 12 to get him out of there though?? Dick Richardson had stopped him in one before!!!?? haha

Then blitzed a SHOT Cleve - yeah looked amazing - but this was no contest from the start - at no point did this turn into a real fight - not exactly "championship level" stuff IMO

Then pot shotted at a tall thing punching bag (and occassionally fouled him when he was getting frustrated) - again no real "championship level" challenge there

Then Folley who really was a tired old man at that point - even in his better days he managed to get beat by Henry Cooper a good plucky Brit but in reality no threat at "championship level"?

Then when returning HE LOST THE FIRST "CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL FIGHT HE HAD" against Smokin Joe

Then there was your fat Buster Mathis' and your Jurgen Blins' - yeah "championship level" stuff there again I see

Mixed in were a past it Floyd who was still able to give Ali some moments but again got out of jail on a cut

Then skinny Bob who always ended up losing against the top heavies - very predictable

The superlative Joe Bugner - who really lost to a completely knackered Henry Cooper

THEN ALI LOST AGAIN - TO NORTON - who was practically unknown and was picked as an easy opponent at the time - he been KO'd by Jose Luis Garcia 3 years previous

After rematching him he had another softner against Rudi Lubbers!!! Who went the distance!!??

Then he had a wierd fight with Frazier where the ref kept stopping the action and rounds kept ending early - what??

Then Foreman

Then post Foreman - you had names like Wepner, Bugner, Pierre-Coopman, Dunn, Evangelista, etc - no where near "championship level" stuff

and amongst those gift decisions that he really LOST to Young, Norton and Shavers - and then he topped it off by getting beat by a 7 FIGHT NOVICE in Leon Spinks

YEAH AT LEAST HE HAD 12 YEARS OF CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL TO PROVE HIS SALT
RockysSplitNose is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 06:30 AM   #105
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,084
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Overlooking for one second the fact that we don't even have half of Dempsey’s pre title run.

The Fulton win is outstanding. Perhaps the most complete domination of a top contender in the history of the sport.

Miske, Brennan, Morris and Levinsky are all good wins. These fighters were all key players in the heavyweight division at the time, and were all pretty much at their hiatus during Dempsey pre title run. These were essentially the fighters who would have probably held a top 10 ranking, had such rankings been compiled at the time. You would also have to factor in that with the exception of Miske, they were utterly annihilated.

Gunboat Smith, Porky Flynn and Arthur Pelkey were name fighters who were on the slide by then.

In all, I don't think that many heavyweight champions amassed a better resume en route to the title.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013