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View Poll Results: who is greater?
Duran 45 62.50%
Leonard 12 16.67%
Same tier 15 20.83%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-19-2013, 05:54 PM   #46
MAG1965
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

It is easy for me. Leonard easily greater. He beat great fighters, Duran only beat Ray who then beat him easily in the rematch. It isn't even a little greater, it is significant to me.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:56 PM   #47
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gesta View Post
Ray getting KO'd by a past prime feather fisted former featherweight in Camacho will forever taint his legacy.


Duran is better without question.

Duran jumped two divisions to beat the younger, bigger, lessshop worn , faster & stronger champ in Ray , where Ray had two wait until the champ two division north was faded before he grew some balls to step in with him , which was around 4 years after Duran took Hagler the distance.
Duran jumped 2 division? He fought at 15 as early as 1978 before Hearns,Benitez and Leonard did.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:23 PM   #48
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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when in doubt, pick the black guy.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:38 PM   #49
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Ray getting KO'd by a past prime feather fisted former featherweight in Camacho will forever taint his legacy.
Thats the last thing i think about when i think about Leonard...
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:39 PM   #50
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Ray getting KO'd by a past prime feather fisted former featherweight in Camacho will forever taint his legacy.
Thats the last thing i think about when i think about Leonard... I dont think its tainted his legacy as much as you think, Ali Holmes didnt taint his legacy we remember all his other fights and forget that because it wasnt him
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:25 AM   #51
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

No way is Leonard significantly greater.
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:41 PM   #52
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Duran jumped 2 division? He fought at 15 as early as 1978 before Hearns,Benitez and Leonard did.
Duran also started his career at 126lbs. He is the smallest and oldest of those fighters you mentioned but that has been one point you dont want to acknowledge.

Leonard was just entering his prime when that era was beginning. Duran`s prime was coming to an end.

A simple fact.
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:45 PM   #53
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Well said
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:45 PM   #54
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

If not for Duran fighters like Buchanon and DeJesus may be held in higher regard than they are now. Both are respected as very good boxers but had Duran not destroyed them they may have been looked at as great fighters rather than just good fighters.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:03 PM   #55
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Thats the last thing i think about when i think about Leonard... I dont think its tainted his legacy as much as you think, Ali Holmes didnt taint his legacy we remember all his other fights and forget that because it wasnt him

Ali had a long carrer , where Ray had a short carrer, for me I think that Ray was around the perfect time for his abilities. He was always going to break down early, if it was not for the ritirements and comebacks he would of fought good comp' regulary and some one would of givin him a real tough fight and ruined him alot eariler. The fake retirements and comebacks saved him in a way. A guy like Ray should not be KO'd by a past prime feather fisted former featherweight, even if he was shot.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:42 PM   #56
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gesta View Post
Ray getting KO'd by a past prime feather fisted former featherweight in Camacho will forever taint his legacy.


Duran is better without question.

Duran jumped two divisions to beat the younger, bigger, lessshop worn , faster & stronger champ in Ray , where Ray had two wait until the champ two division north was faded before he grew some balls to step in with him , which was around 4 years after Duran took Hagler the distance.
Duran didn't jump 2 divisions. he fought at 154 as early as 1978 before Hearns,Leonard and Benitez fought there. Duran never knocked out a great fighter and only beat one great in Leonard, who then outclassed him the last two times they fought. Ray beat 4 great fighters in his career, I think that proves he is greater. Duran had the longer career and fought greats, but didn't beat them and that is significant. I think Duran is very overrated as far as wins over greats. Pernell and Floyd's style would have probably beaten him rather easily, yet I think Duran is greater. Stylewise he could not deal with the fast guys who didn't let him fight his fight. The faster counterpunchers beat him easily.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:44 PM   #57
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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It is easy for me. Leonard easily greater. He beat great fighters, Duran only beat Ray who then beat him easily in the rematch. It isn't even a little greater, it is significant to me.

Like with was unexpected..lol
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:07 PM   #58
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Mag
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:13 PM   #59
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Duran didn't jump 2 divisions. he fought at 154 as early as 1978 before Hearns,Leonard and Benitez fought there. Duran never knocked out a great fighter and only beat one great in Leonard, who then outclassed him the last two times they fought. Ray beat 4 great fighters in his career, I think that proves he is greater. Duran had the longer career and fought greats, but didn't beat them and that is significant. I think Duran is very overrated as far as wins over greats. Pernell and Floyd's style would have probably beaten him rather easily, yet I think Duran is greater. Stylewise he could not deal with the fast guys who didn't let him fight his fight. The faster counterpunchers beat him easily.
Duran was a carrer LW, Ray was a carrer WW, Hagler was a carrer MW. Pretty simple really.

Duran also fought at 154 before Roy Jones Jr too.

Ray had too fight Duran when he was out of shape to get the win in his own division & Hearns had too find a JR division to be a champ in.

Duran KO'd Buchanan , DeJesus , etc...

Floyd had to retire at WW , cause Margorito , Cotto , Williams etc.. were coming good , I think that is safe to say that if Duran was around he would of 'retired' then too.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:39 PM   #60
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Originally Posted by Gesta View Post
Duran was a carrer LW, Ray was a carrer WW, Hagler was a carrer MW. Pretty simple really.

Duran also fought at 154 before Roy Jones Jr too.

Ray had too fight Duran when he was out of shape to get the win in his own division & Hearns had too find a JR division to be a champ in.

Duran KO'd Buchanan , DeJesus , etc...

Floyd had to retire at WW , cause Margorito , Cotto , Williams etc.. were coming good , I think that is safe to say that if Duran was around he would of 'retired' then too.
Ray's wins is why I think he was greater. Those 4 wins over all the others, something Hearns,Duran or Hagler did not do. Duran grew out of the lightweight division early enough. Ray was a natural 147,even 154 was a bit much for Ray, yet Duran fought better at 168 than Ray ever did.
Well the fact he fought at 154 before Roy Jones Jr. doesn't mean much. The significance of when he fought at 154 is with the greats he actually fought Benitez,Hearns,Leonard,Hagler. Two of those guys Benitez and Hearns fought him at 154, where people said he was too high in weight and old. Old at 30 for Wilfred and 32 for Thomas.

Ray fought his fight is the explanation I have, and since he won 2 fights easily, the variable had to be Ray. One can say Duran had to get Ray to fight his fight to win because like it or not Duran was one of Ray's easiest fights when Ray prepared and knew how to fight him. In 1989 he knew he would easily beat Duran in the rubber match. And won every round. People say Duran was old then, but so was Ray and still Ray beat him. Once Ray fought his fight Duran could not beat him.
Buchanan and Dejesus are good fighters. HOF, but not ATG fighters or close. The closest thing Duran got to knocking out an ATG is Cuevas, who is debatable as an ATG but a HOF fighter. A legend no doubt, but ATG? Borderline, and Pipino was at 154 in 1983 when they fought.
I admit, Duran fought them all, but he did not beat the greats. That I think should have been significant in rating his career, especially the question who is greater Ray or Duran. People say, well he was old and out of his best weight lightweight. But does his lightweight reign justify being ranked over Ray? I don't think so. So what does get him over the top? Having over 100 fights? He had a great career, but I don't see how it compares to Ray's wins.
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