Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


View Poll Results: who is greater?
Duran 45 62.50%
Leonard 12 16.67%
Same tier 15 20.83%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-21-2013, 03:48 PM   #76
Hands of Iron
#MSE
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,356
vCash: 75
Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

The 'ranked' fighters fought during their LW and WW runs respectively

DURAN

1972: Ken Buchanan (World LW Champ)
1972: Esteban DeJesus (No. 1 LW) (@140) - LOSS
1973: Hector Thompson (No. 6 LWW) (@135)
1974: Esteban DeJesus (No. 1 LW)
1975: Ray Lampkin (No. 1 LW)
1976: Saoul Mamby (No. 10 JWW)
1976: Lou Bizzarro (No. 5 LWW) (@135)
1977: Vilomar Fernandez (No. 4 LW)
1977: Edwin Viruet (No. 2 LW)
1978: Esteban DeJesus (No. 1 LW)

LEONARD

1978: Floyd Mayweather Sr. (No. 6 WW)
1978: Randy Shields (No. 4 WW)
1979: Johnny Gant (No. 4 WW)
1979: Adolfo Viruet (No. 8 JWW) (@147)
1979: Tony Chiaverini (No. 4 LMW) (@154)
1979: Pete Ranzany (No. 5 WW)
1979: Andy Price (No. 8 WW)
1979: Wilfred Benitez (World WW Champion)
1980: Dave "Boy" Green (No. 7 WW)
1980: Roberto Duran (No. 2 WW) - LOSS
1980: Roberto Duran (World WW Champion)
1981: Ayub Kalule (World LMW Champion)
1981: Thomas Hearns (No. 1 WW; Titlist)
1982: Bruce Finch (No. 6 WW)
-- Fight scheduled for May 1982 with No. 2 WW Roger Stafford. Retirement.


The gulf people contnue referring to is quite imaginative. Leonard's 'work rate' was scorching.
Hands of Iron is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-21-2013, 03:53 PM   #77
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,761
vCash: 1000
Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAG1965 View Post
The only thing I can say about title defenses is who were they against. Duran did not fight elites in that reign. I wish he would have found a way to fight Arguello or Pryor or Cervantes at 140 to see how he would have done. I think Arguello is a much tougher fight than expected for Roberto. As for title defenses, Virgil Hill has 25 or so, so by that we can say he is greater than Hearns even if Hearns easily outboxed him.
Duran made 12 defenses, and was champ for 7 years. Who did he avoid or fail to meet at 135 ? Were Arguello, Pryor and Cervantes top-ranked lightweights during his reign ?

I thought 'Prince' Charles Williams was better than Virgill Hill.
Unforgiven is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 04:00 PM   #78
duranimal
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of England
Posts: 4,348
vCash: 1000
Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAG1965 View Post
Buchanan is not an ATG fighter. A very good HOF fighter and a nice guy. I met him once. There is no way a win over a green Leonard in June of 1980 when Ray fought his fight is the best win of the fab 4. Ray at the time was on the second defense of his first title reign. Just the fact he fought Duran's fight because of a comment Duran made to Ray shows Ray's immaturity. Ray was not yet in this prime when Duran bet him in June of 1980, and Duran did not dominate him and Ray actually fought Duran's fight. Ray later learned the whole game and how to fight his fight and style and to get considerations in fights for psychological advantage..
Still excreating the same old GREEN SHYTE!

Go see a doctor! get that bunghole checked out! Could be something serious or it could be just a mental problem
duranimal is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 04:05 PM   #79
Hands of Iron
#MSE
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,356
vCash: 75
Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAG1965 View Post
Buchanan is not an ATG fighter. A very good HOF fighter and a nice guy. I met him once. There is no way a win over a green Leonard in June of 1980 when Ray fought his fight is the best win of the fab 4. Ray at the time was on the second defense of his first title reign. Just the fact he fought Duran's fight because of a comment Duran made to Ray shows Ray's immaturity. Ray was not yet in this prime when Duran bet him in June of 1980, and Duran did not dominate him and Ray actually fought Duran's fight. Ray later learned the whole game and how to fight his fight and style and to get considerations in fights for psychological advantage.

Best win of the fab 4? Honestly? It could be Hagler over Hearns just by how Marvin put his all mentally and physically and denied losing or being hurt. Best knockout is Hearns over Duran. Biggest upset is Leonard over Hagler. Actuallyt the Duran/Leonard fights turned out to be the most onesided fights of the fab 4 matchups.
Leonard was actually quite experienced. He'd ripped the entire division a new ass at a blistering pace. See above.
Hands of Iron is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 04:15 PM   #80
Hands of Iron
#MSE
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,356
vCash: 75
Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

You guys put a shit ton of consideration into title reigns, either by arguing how much greater Duran was at LW for it or trying to twist reality into Leonard somehow being "Green" when he fought Duran . World level opposition is world level opposition.
Hands of Iron is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 04:15 PM   #81
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,984
vCash: 330
Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Duran over Leonard is the best result of the fab4.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 04:21 PM   #82
Hands of Iron
#MSE
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,356
vCash: 75
Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Clehly.
Hands of Iron is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 04:31 PM   #83
Bokaj
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,352
vCash: 1000
Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands of Iron View Post
The 'ranked' fighters fought during their LW and WW runs respectively

DURAN

1972: Ken Buchanan (World LW Champ)
1972: Esteban DeJesus (No. 1 LW) (@140) - LOSS
1973: Hector Thompson (No. 6 LWW) (@135)
1974: Esteban DeJesus (No. 1 LW)
1975: Ray Lampkin (No. 1 LW)
1976: Saoul Mamby (No. 10 JWW)
1976: Lou Bizzarro (No. 5 LWW) (@135)
1977: Vilomar Fernandez (No. 4 LW)
1977: Edwin Viruet (No. 2 LW)
1978: Esteban DeJesus (No. 1 LW)

LEONARD



1978: Floyd Mayweather Sr. (No. 6 WW)
1978: Randy Shields (No. 4 WW)
1979: Johnny Gant (No. 4 WW)
1979: Adolfo Viruet (No. 8 JWW) (@147)
1979: Tony Chiaverini (No. 4 LMW) (@154)
1979: Pete Ranzany (No. 5 WW)
1979: Andy Price (No. 8 WW)
1979: Wilfred Benitez (World WW Champion)
1980: Dave "Boy" Green (No. 7 WW)
1980: Roberto Duran (No. 2 WW) - LOSS
1980: Roberto Duran (World WW Champion)
1981: Ayub Kalule (World LMW Champion)
1981: Thomas Hearns (No. 1 WW; Titlist)
1982: Bruce Finch (No. 6 WW)
-- Fight scheduled for May 1982 with No. 2 WW Roger Stafford. Retirement.


The gulf people contnue referring to is quite imaginative. Leonard's 'work rate' was scorching.
You sure that was all Duran had at LW? Much less than I expected.
Bokaj is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 04:33 PM   #84
Hands of Iron
#MSE
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,356
vCash: 75
Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

GUTS should be mentioned.
Hands of Iron is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 04:39 PM   #85
MAG1965
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Dallas,Texas.
Posts: 17,399
vCash: 1010
Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
I'm still baffled how a man can be considered green after almost 30 fights and a win over an undefeated ATG.
a guy can have 45 fights and be green. The fact he fought Duran's fight because of being upset with him shows he was still immature and not the professional he was later when he tried to get Hagler in a good mood so he wouldn't attack him in the early rounds, and then Hagler come out right handed. Ray got smarter. The fact Ray beat Duran so easily in the rematch and rubber match is significant. And Duran quit when Ray started to land hard punches to the head and body.

By the way, I do think the best win of the fab 4 was probably Hagler over Hearns. A great performance. Marvin knew that was going to be his legacy. He knew against Duran he did not put the pressure on and he didn't think Leonard would ever come back and fight him, so he had a feeling his legacy was the Hearns fight and it turned out it was. I would love to pick a Hearns win to say it was the best of the fab 4, but I think Marvin's win over Tommy stands out.
MAG1965 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 04:48 PM   #86
lora
Fighting Zapata
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,572
vCash: 500
Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

You would have thought Emiliano Villa's tight loss against Benitez would have earned him some sort of ranking at 140.
lora is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 05:06 PM   #87
lora
Fighting Zapata
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,572
vCash: 500
Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Leonard was brought on superbly.His early career is the blueprint imo on how to bring on a fighter with good backing.

All styles, steadily up the difficulty-a few curveballs like Geraldo etc-then a world title shot after about 4 years.

Make no mistake about it, he was ready for Duran and already a great fighter.Might have improved another slight bit from stuff learned in defeat, but that's it.

Fools like Cosell and his ilk thoroughly exaggerated the "bah gawd he's fighting flat footed!!!" shite and the simpletons ran with it, not noticing he'd been fighting relatively similarly in good chunks of his fights up until then.

Planting his feet and being aggressive offensively was a big part of Leonard's game and going into the Duran fight as the bigger man he had every right to feel doing that very early in the fight was a good idea to take the play away from the smaller man.
lora is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 05:19 PM   #88
Hands of Iron
#MSE
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,356
vCash: 75
Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
A guy with 45 fights and is still green has been fighting weak opposition. Leonard had most definitely not.
He really sells Leonard short with that nonsense. Aside from Benitez, he hadn't taken out any world beaters (as if it didnt prove enough), but putting numerous contenders on his record as quickly as he did looks good on him and gives him stronger case for what he may be, the second greatest welterweight of all-time. He was thoroughly built for the division with the skills and ability to match like very few others.

Then again, he's most interested in discrediting Duran above all else.
Hands of Iron is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 05:52 PM   #89
Rexrapper 1
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 4,564
vCash: 499
Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Was Duran a greater lightweight than Leonard was a welterweight?

Was Duran's victory over Leonard greater than Leonard's over Hagler?

Does Duran compare to Leonard resume wise across a whole career?

Does Duran compare to Leonard skillwise in a peak for peak comparison?

Does Duran's weight hopping compare to Leonard's

For casual fans it seems Leonard it the default choice for greater boxer. For hardcore fans it seems Duran is default choice for greater boxer.

I've seen lots of debate on the trilogy between these two but not as much debate on who should be greater and, more importantly, why.
Was Duran a greater lightweight than Leonard was a welterweight? No not to me. Duran, Benitez, and Hearns trump what Duran did at lightweight.

Was Duran's victory over Leonard greater than Leonard's over Hagler? Yes it was. Leonard was the favorite to win and Duran climbing up two weight classes and beating him trumps beating a old Hagler (Who I don't even think he beat).

Does Duran compare to Leonard resume wise across a whole career?
Yes he does. Duran may not have the better top wins but I think his overall resume is better than Leonard's.

Does Duran compare to Leonard skillwise in a peak for peak comparison? Hell yes. I don't think Duran is more skilled but he is up there. I rate Leonard higher than most when it comes to skill.

Does Duran's weight hopping compare to Leonard's? No, Duran's climbing up in weight was on a different level. To start from 118 pounds all the way up to light heavyweight is amazing. Leonard ****ed up for me with Lalonde.
Rexrapper 1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 06:03 PM   #90
Bill Butcher
Erik`El Terrible`Morales
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Phoenix Marie`s ass, Fritzl Residence, Glasgow, Scotland.
Posts: 14,262
vCash: 1000
Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

I think its quite ridiculous to suggest that either one of these guys were on another tier from each other, they are unquestionably on the same tier.

I rank Duran a little higher in greatness mainly due to his LW reign & his longevity but overall there is definitely not a tier between these guys, no chance.
Bill Butcher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013