Benn, Eubank, Watson, Collins v Ward? Who has the best chance to upset SOG? - Page 2

Hattons Hook · 01-22-2013, 07:55 AM

Personnally think Frcoh is better than Collins so that'd go a similar way.

brown bomber · 01-22-2013, 07:57 AM

Benn peaked in the MCClellon fight. Against a top class fighter he shone. Based on that he's capable.

Watson was tremendous but gets over-rated at times because of his incredible recovery from injury. He beat a very green Nigel Benn and lost to Eubank twice. I wouldn't pick him over Calzaghe.

Eubank was too erratic- at his best he was brilliant but he wasn't quite as complete a fighter as Benn.

The malinga defeat is pretty irrelevant- Benn was beyond shot.

PaulieMc · 01-22-2013, 08:00 AM

Fuck off "upset" SOG. Benn, Eubank, Collins and to a lesser extent Watson are all legends. Ward isn't. Not yet anyway. He's only just started really. Whether your think any of those guys in their primes could have beat Ward or vice-versa is up for debate, it all depends on what your prefer.

But to ask if any of those guys could win in an "upset" is disrespectful and stupid. Christ, Ward's unified one division and beat a weight-drained LW champion yet people are already calling him a legend and making out like he's some modern-day Sugar Ray Leonard. Stop putting him on this high-pedestal this early in his career. We actually don't know yet how truly good he is.

Hattons Hook · 01-22-2013, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brown bomber

Benn peaked in the MCClellon fight. Against a top class fighter he shone. Based on that he's capable.

Watson was tremendous but gets over-rated at times because of his incredible recovery from injury. He beat a very green Nigel Benn and lost to Eubank twice. I wouldn't pick him over Calzaghe.

Eubank was too erratic- at his best he was brilliant but he wasn't quite as complete a fighter as Benn.

The malinga defeat is pretty irrelevant- Benn was beyond shot.

Exactly. You have to take a fighters best performance and the Benn of that night was more than enough to give Ward problems. He certainly wouldnt have been " outfought ".

DrMo · 01-22-2013, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hattons Hook

Personnally think Frcoh is better than Collins so that'd go a similar way.

He's probably a better fighter but has a very different style.

Froch wasnt that fired up for the Ward fight but he got real cautious, real quick after being countered & beaten to the punch.

I dont think Collins would be so easily dissuaded. Froch has a very good chin but Ive never seen him just wade through punishment like Collins has without blinking.

Unforgiven · 01-22-2013, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulieMc

Fuck off "upset" SOG. Benn, Eubank, Collins and to a lesser extent Watson are all legends. Ward isn't. Not yet anyway. He's only just started really. Whether your think any of those guys in their primes could have beat Ward or vice-versa is up for debate, it all depends on what your prefer.

But to ask if any of those guys could win in an "upset" is disrespectful and stupid. Christ, Ward's unified one division and beat a weight-drained LW champion yet people are already calling him a legend and making out like he's some modern-day Sugar Ray Leonard. Stop putting him on this high-pedestal this early in his career. We actually don't know yet how truly good he is.

I'm not sure what McGrain meant by "upset". Maybe he figures Ward is already proven better than those guy at their peaks, I dunno. I don't see it.

If we took either Watson or Eubank out of 1991 and put them in 2013, they'd be A LOT more highly regarded than anyone Ward has faced. I don't think the fact that Ward has beat Kessler et al. would make him favourite to beat a peak undefeated Eubank, or a rampaging Benn.

miguel2010 · 01-22-2013, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brown bomber

H2h at his very best Benn was the best UK super middle ever. He wasn't the most consistent but he was the most complete. At his best he'd beat ward imo

Why couldn't he beat Eubank then Jeff?

Check my hook · 01-22-2013, 09:07 AM

Eubank for me!

miguel2010 · 01-22-2013, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Check my hook

Eubank for me!

Nice name

HOF · 01-22-2013, 09:19 AM

That's a good title because my gut instinct if I had to put money on it is that Ward would probably have just too much for them all, but who would have the best chance is difficult to weigh up. Benn had a force of nature thing about him but I never considered him a complete fighter who could think his way through a fight and adapt. Against McClellan he came up against a similar character who went hell for leather at him. But against somebody like Eubank who was as strong, could punch but could also think his way through a fight he struggled badly and got taken out. However, Ward may have been too slick for Eubank but he doesn't punch hard enough to knock out either him or Benn.

So maybe a peak Benn would have the best shot. He might be able to make Ward work at a higher pace than the other guys and for longer, and if Ward has one weakness it is definitely stamina. So maybe it would be a question of whether a peak Benn would be able to take Ward's in and out pot shotting for 8 rounds or so and then finally get to him in the final rounds? Interesting question.

Collins was a tough nut but I don't seem him being able to make Ward fight at such a high rate and you can see Ward pot shotting him comfortably. Given Ward's core strength that allowed him to push Froch around until he started puffing, I don't think Watson would be strong enough against somebody just as slick.

McGrain · 01-22-2013, 09:29 AM

Yeah, I think Ward is better than all of these guys. I base this upon Ward's performance against Froch, particularly. I think Froch would have been right with these guys if he were around at the time, i don't think he is outclassed by these guys at all...Ward, on the other hand, is clearly a clear class above Froch.

I think Ward is nearer Calzaghe's class than Benn's and Froch is in Benn's class, not Ward's.

No Unforgiven, I don't think he's "proven better" (like greater?).

craney91 · 01-22-2013, 09:37 AM

None. Andre Ward is the most complete fighter today. Even Joe Calzaghe, who I consider to be the best I have seen in my lifetime, would have been picked apart. Andre Ward is simply on another level mentally, and physically, maybe even spiritually. Not only does he have all the ability, he has one, if not the best, trainer in the world, today.

Unbeatable.

While I will say I think he could have been pushed a little bit more than his current "competition", I still think he beats all, he just knows how to get the job done and that is one of the most important things at elite level in boxing. It dont matter if its and ugly fight, a scrap, or a hard fight, he knows how to get the job done.

Class act. And when you look at some of the "competition" he has faced so far, some are good fighters in their own right, but he proves to be another level. Carl Froch looked like a fish out of water, and got utterly, utterly exposed. As did Bad Chad, as did Kessler, as did all the others.

This shows just how good Andre Ward is. Another level entirely, out of this world level.

Hattons Hook · 01-22-2013, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craney91

None. Andre Ward is the most complete fighter today. Even Joe Calzaghe, who I consider to be the best I have seen in my lifetime, would have been picked apart. Andre Ward is simply on another level mentally, and physically, maybe even spiritually. Not only does he have all the ability, he has one, if not the best, trainer in the world, today.

Unbeatable.

While I will say I think he could have been pushed a little bit more than his current "competition", I still think he beats all, he just knows how to get the job done and that is one of the most important things at elite level in boxing. It dont matter if its and ugly fight, a scrap, or a hard fight, he knows how to get the job done.

Class act. And when you look at some of the "competition" he has faced so far, some are good fighters in their own right, but he proves to be another level. Carl Froch looked like a fish out of water, and got utterly, utterly exposed. As did Bad Chad, as did Kessler, as did all the others.

This shows just how good Andre Ward is. Another level entirely, out of this world level.

Andre Ward and Joe Calzaghe are the 2 best fighters in your lifetime ? How old are you ? 8 ?

McGrain · 01-22-2013, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craney91

maybe even spiritually.

brown bomber · 01-22-2013, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miguel2010

Why couldn't he beat Eubank then Jeff?

Most thought Benn won the rematch and first time round he didn't know enough. Benn simply wasn't the same fighter as he was at middleweight. His defence was no where near as good as a youngster.

Prime Benn beats Calzaghe h2h in my opinion - let alone Ward who looks pretty good but struggled with sakio bika

01-22-2013, 07:55 AM	#16
Hattons Hook Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Manchester Posts: 9,665 vCash: 1000	Re: Benn, Eubank, Watson, Collins v Ward? Who has the best chance to upset SOG? Personnally think Frcoh is better than Collins so that'd go a similar way.
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01-22-2013, 07:57 AM	#17
brown bomber 2010 Poster of the Year East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,402 vCash: 1000	Re: Benn, Eubank, Watson, Collins v Ward? Who has the best chance to upset SOG? Benn peaked in the MCClellon fight. Against a top class fighter he shone. Based on that he's capable. Watson was tremendous but gets over-rated at times because of his incredible recovery from injury. He beat a very green Nigel Benn and lost to Eubank twice. I wouldn't pick him over Calzaghe. Eubank was too erratic- at his best he was brilliant but he wasn't quite as complete a fighter as Benn. The malinga defeat is pretty irrelevant- Benn was beyond shot.
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01-22-2013, 08:00 AM	#18
PaulieMc Vae Victis ESB Addict Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Liverpool, England Posts: 2,018 vCash: 416	Re: Benn, Eubank, Watson, Collins v Ward? Who has the best chance to upset SOG? Fuck off "upset" SOG. Benn, Eubank, Collins and to a lesser extent Watson are all legends. Ward isn't. Not yet anyway. He's only just started really. Whether your think any of those guys in their primes could have beat Ward or vice-versa is up for debate, it all depends on what your prefer. But to ask if any of those guys could win in an "upset" is disrespectful and stupid. Christ, Ward's unified one division and beat a weight-drained LW champion yet people are already calling him a legend and making out like he's some modern-day Sugar Ray Leonard. Stop putting him on this high-pedestal this early in his career. We actually don't know yet how truly good he is.
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01-22-2013, 09:07 AM	#23
Check my hook newbie Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 36 vCash: 500	Re: Benn, Eubank, Watson, Collins v Ward? Who has the best chance to upset SOG? Eubank for me!
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01-22-2013, 09:19 AM	#25
HOF Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,211 vCash: 1000	Re: Benn, Eubank, Watson, Collins v Ward? Who has the best chance to upset SOG? That's a good title because my gut instinct if I had to put money on it is that Ward would probably have just too much for them all, but who would have the best chance is difficult to weigh up. Benn had a force of nature thing about him but I never considered him a complete fighter who could think his way through a fight and adapt. Against McClellan he came up against a similar character who went hell for leather at him. But against somebody like Eubank who was as strong, could punch but could also think his way through a fight he struggled badly and got taken out. However, Ward may have been too slick for Eubank but he doesn't punch hard enough to knock out either him or Benn. So maybe a peak Benn would have the best shot. He might be able to make Ward work at a higher pace than the other guys and for longer, and if Ward has one weakness it is definitely stamina. So maybe it would be a question of whether a peak Benn would be able to take Ward's in and out pot shotting for 8 rounds or so and then finally get to him in the final rounds? Interesting question. Collins was a tough nut but I don't seem him being able to make Ward fight at such a high rate and you can see Ward pot shotting him comfortably. Given Ward's core strength that allowed him to push Froch around until he started puffing, I don't think Watson would be strong enough against somebody just as slick.
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01-22-2013, 09:29 AM	#26
McGrain Diamond Dog East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 63,236 vCash: 1000	Re: Benn, Eubank, Watson, Collins v Ward? Who has the best chance to upset SOG? Yeah, I think Ward is better than all of these guys. I base this upon Ward's performance against Froch, particularly. I think Froch would have been right with these guys if he were around at the time, i don't think he is outclassed by these guys at all...Ward, on the other hand, is clearly a clear class above Froch. I think Ward is nearer Calzaghe's class than Benn's and Froch is in Benn's class, not Ward's. No Unforgiven, I don't think he's "proven better" (like greater?).
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01-22-2013, 09:37 AM	#27
craney91 Fairytale of Park Royal ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 2,370 vCash: 500	Re: Benn, Eubank, Watson, Collins v Ward? Who has the best chance to upset SOG? None. Andre Ward is the most complete fighter today. Even Joe Calzaghe, who I consider to be the best I have seen in my lifetime, would have been picked apart. Andre Ward is simply on another level mentally, and physically, maybe even spiritually. Not only does he have all the ability, he has one, if not the best, trainer in the world, today. Unbeatable. While I will say I think he could have been pushed a little bit more than his current "competition", I still think he beats all, he just knows how to get the job done and that is one of the most important things at elite level in boxing. It dont matter if its and ugly fight, a scrap, or a hard fight, he knows how to get the job done. Class act. And when you look at some of the "competition" he has faced so far, some are good fighters in their own right, but he proves to be another level. Carl Froch looked like a fish out of water, and got utterly, utterly exposed. As did Bad Chad, as did Kessler, as did all the others. This shows just how good Andre Ward is. Another level entirely, out of this world level.
Top