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Old 01-22-2013, 03:17 PM   #196
Bill1234
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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I would have been all for a rematch, but wasnt it Haglar that said he'd never fight again?
Yes, but at the same time he was really pushing for a rematch with Ray. It was the only fight he was interested in. Had he beaten Ray in a rematch he still would've probably retired.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:18 PM   #197
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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That's probably why he wanted the rematch so badly. He felt he did enough (which wasn't much, especially by Hagler standards) to win the first time, and I agree with him. In a rematch Hagler would've been all over Leonard and done what he should've done the first time.

I think Ray knew it too and knew that he got off very, very easy in their one and only encounter and did not do a rematch because of it.
To be fair, Ray was rusty, and not back in the groove.

It's all conjecture. I'm reasonably confident in a rematch, Ray would have been better, too.

Again, SRL had every disadvantage. His situation would only improve in an immediate sort of rematch situation.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:21 PM   #198
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

Even with all of the stipulations that, yes, did indeed favour Leonard, Hagler still had no business losing to Leonard in 1987. A mountainous achievement by Sugar. Glorious.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:27 PM   #199
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Even with all of the stipulations that, yes, did indeed favour Leonard, Hagler still had no business losing to Leonard in 1987. A mountainous achievement by Sugar. Glorious.
Hagler surrendered them pretty likely. Clearly must have not thought they made a difference.

In hindsight, allowing a rusty fighter off a long layoff a MUCH shorter distance(3 rounds is quite a bit) was the height of foolishness.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:30 PM   #200
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Hagler surrendered them pretty likely. Clearly must have not thought they made a difference.

In hindsight, allowing a rusty fighter off a long layoff a MUCH shorter distance(3 rounds is quite a bit) was the height of foolishness.
Indeed. He wanted Leonard's name on his CV, and he also wanted the pay day. I suppose he thought the fight wouldn't last that long anyhow. Ray hadn't fought in such a long time. It's completely understandable Hagler wouldn't have been all that worried. I'd probably have done the same thing just to get the man in the ring.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:39 PM   #201
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Indeed. He wanted Leonard's name on his CV, and he also wanted the pay day. I suppose he thought the fight wouldn't last that long anyhow. Ray hadn't fought in such a long time. It's completely understandable Hagler wouldn't have been all that worried. I'd probably have done the same thing just to get the man in the ring.
I've taken a man lightly like that before. It ended for me about the same way.

Forgot what an old buddy of my used to say, "Remember, the other guy is a trained fighter, and thus perfectly capable of f***ing a man up."

It ain't ever easy in there, nor a sure thing. Sometimes, we pay for our arrogance with parts of our legacies.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:43 PM   #202
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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I've taken a man lightly like that before. It ended for me about the same way.

Forgot what an old buddy of my used to say, "Remember, the other guy is a trained fighter, and thus perfectly capable of f***ing a man up."

It ain't ever easy in there, nor a sure thing. Sometimes, we pay for our arrogance with parts of our legacies.

Taking a man lightly is goin against the 123 and ABC's of boxing!...I did some fighting as well..worst mistake you can make!
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:46 PM   #203
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Taking a man lightly is goin against the 123 and ABC's of boxing!...I did some fighting as well..worst mistake you can make!
In the case of Hagler-Leonard, it was almost inevitable. Ray hadn't fought for 3 years in a professional ring. How can he hope to go 12 rounds with the Middleweight king? It won't happen. Hagler was as dedicated as they come, but he was also very arrogant when it came to his only ability. I'm currently reading Four Kings. Whenever there is a quote from Hagler he's being very bullish about his own ability, and the chances of his opponent beating him. I don't think he was worried in the slightest entering the ring with Leonard in 1987. As you say, a mistake.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:50 PM   #204
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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In the case of Hagler-Leonard, it was almost inevitable. Ray hadn't fought for 3 years in a professional ring. How can he hope to go 12 rounds with the Middleweight king? It won't happen. Hagler was as dedicated as they come, but he was also very arrogant when it came to his only ability. I'm currently reading Four Kings. Whenever there is a quote from Hagler he's being very bullish about his own ability, and the chances of his opponent beating him. I don't think he was worried in the slightest entering the ring with Leonard in 1987. As you say, a mistake.

That was certainly the feeling at the time. It was almost like it was some sort of circus sideshow exhibition rather than a serious middleweight title defense. By then, Hagler had just started coming down a bit from the heady success and huge money he'd only really started making two years earlier. I think by then, he'd gotten a bit jaded and maybe disinterested, like he'd climbed all the mountains he needed to climb. This fight seemed then like just an excuse to make a lot of money and "make the papers" as it were. Not a soul thought Ray would win. No one.


Except for revisionist historians on this board twenty-five years after the fact. They were pretty savvy, I guess.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:00 PM   #205
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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That was certainly the feeling at the time. It was almost like it was some sort of circus sideshow exhibition rather than a serious middleweight title defense. By then, Hagler had just started coming down a bit from the heady success and huge money he'd only really started making two years earlier. I think by then, he'd gotten a bit jaded and maybe disinterested, like he'd climbed all the mountains he needed to climb. This fight seemed then like just an excuse to make a lot of money and "make the papers" as it were. Not a soul thought Ray would win. No one.


Except for revisionist historians on this board twenty-five years after the fact. They were pretty savvy, I guess.
I was pretty young and not really focused on it, but I've talked to guys who were insiders around that time and scene at about that time, and they thought it was sanctioned murder.

I have a buddy who says he was honestly more surprised at what he was watching than Tyson vs. Douglas, as he always knew that eventually Mike would crash to Earth hard.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:04 PM   #206
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Originally Posted by salsanchezfan View Post
That was certainly the feeling at the time. It was almost like it was some sort of circus sideshow exhibition rather than a serious middleweight title defense. By then, Hagler had just started coming down a bit from the heady success and huge money he'd only really started making two years earlier. I think by then, he'd gotten a bit jaded and maybe disinterested, like he'd climbed all the mountains he needed to climb. This fight seemed then like just an excuse to make a lot of money and "make the papers" as it were. Not a soul thought Ray would win. No one.


Except for revisionist historians on this board twenty-five years after the fact. They were pretty savvy, I guess.
True, hagler's bitterness got the better of him and he "sold out" for the easy money walkover he thought he was entitled to at that point against the former superstar.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:05 PM   #207
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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I was pretty young and not really focused on it, but I've talked to guys who were insiders around that time and scene at about that time, and they thought it was sanctioned murder.

I have a buddy who says he was honestly more surprised at what he was watching than Tyson vs. Douglas, as he always knew that eventually Mike would crash to Earth hard.

Crash and never really get back up....sad!
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:18 PM   #208
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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True, hagler's bitterness got the better of him and he "sold out" for the easy money walkover he thought he was entitled to at that point against the former superstar.
It's funny how many make this mistake.

They forget that the superstar was a superstar for a reason; He can fight. Usually rather well.

No such thing as an easy pay day unless you take it serious as a heart attack. Hagler dancing and shaking around at the end of the fight? So out of character. He never felt comfortable, because he was stunned by what happened in the ring.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:08 PM   #209
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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I would have been all for a rematch, but wasnt it Haglar that said he'd never fight again?
No, that wasn`t the case. Hagler had a lot of personal things going on in his life at the time of the fight. However, he had a long talk with goody saying he wanted the rematch only... They tried mightily to get SRL back to the table, but he and his braintust wasn`t biting. So after much thought, he told Goody ,`he isn`t going to give me the rematch and he had no interest in fighting anyone elas. So he packed it in. Goody and Pat had smartly handled his finances so even though goinf through a divorce. he was extremly well off ...
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:09 PM   #210
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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As much as I like Hagler, he was the one to "rob" himself before the fight (though, in retrospect, it was good for him as he retired in good health).

He was the champion after all, and still he agreed for anything SRL wanted. Larger ring, larger gloves, and 12 rounds instead of traditional (at that time) 15. All of those changes were obviously favouring Leonard. I believe without those changes Hagler would give much better fight.
Thing is that without those concessions, there would have been no fight ! Thats why Pat agreed... And as someone already said, NOONE gave SRL any kind of a shot after 3 yrs out...
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