duran v leonard greatness comparison.

[Addie]

Originally Posted by NWS

I said that because sometimes when arguing for Duran's behalf, people tend to take a tremendous piss on everything Leonard was or did... If that's the case, what makes it a great win if Leonard wasn't really shit anyway?

You noticed that too then?

[orriray59]

The thing that makes the SRL victory as special as it is, is the fact that Leonard didn't lose again until he was well past it fighting at weight classes he shouldn't have been fighting at.
Nobody beat Leonard like that in his prime, or close to it.

[NWS]

Originally Posted by Addie

You noticed that too then?

My posts tend to give off a vibe of being pro-SRL over Duran at times. That's really not the angle at all. So why go to lengths at defending SRL's quality and all time standing, as a Welterweight in particular. Why would I do that?

[Addie]

Originally Posted by orriray59

The thing that makes the SRL victory as special as it is, is the fact that Leonard didn't lose again until he was well past it fighting at weight classes he shouldn't have been fighting at.
Nobody beat Leonard like that in his prime, or close to it.

It tends to be forgotten, but Duran-Leonard I was a close fight. Duran's victory over Barkley was perhaps more convincing.

My posts tend to give off a vibe of being pro-SRL over Duran at times. That's really not the angle at all. So why go to lengths at defending SRL's quality and all time standing, as a Welterweight in particular. Why would I do that?

Absolutely.

In championing Ray Leonard, you're also championing Duran. Only a world class fighter of the highest quality could have defeated a 147lbs Leonard. He was that good.

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by lora

And posting up some basic rankings for info purposes swayed you to that extent? or was it something else in the thread.

No, nothing particular in this thread.
Just the fact that when considering the lightweight division in its historical entirety, I see a lot of great champions had a lot of fierce competition. It's a stacked division.
The reason so many of them had short reigns and few defences is because of the quality of challenger. Duran hit a bit of a lower spot. I do believe welterweight was a tougher division during that period, and to his credit he went up, beat some contenders and beat the champion.
Still, as a LW he was amazing.

[orriray59]

Originally Posted by Addie

It tends to be forgotten, but Duran-Leonard I was a close fight. Duran's victory over Barkley was perhaps more convincing.

Absolutely.

In championing Ray Leonard, you're also championing Duran. Only a world class fighter of the highest quality could have defeated a 147lbs Leonard. He was that good.

Oh, no doubt it was a close fight. I had Duran by a point, I believe. I mean, it depends on how you score it. Over at this scorecard website the majority (think it was two-thirds) had Duran losing the Brawl, which was surprising to me.

I had Duran-Barkley to Hands of Stone by one point if IIRC, making the "closeness" on the scorecards equal. It's all down to your scoring preferences, but I'm convinced that Leonard was closely but clearly defeated that night.

[Unforgiven]

I believe Benitez is overrated as a welterweight champion.
Leonard too - perhaps by extension.
And, yes, as great as it was, Duran's win over Leonard is overrated, or at least it's given a 'special' rating for the wrong reasons, imo.
Any time a lightweight champ moves up and captures the welter crown it's a big deal, imo, especially from a good or great fighter.
I think people tend to put SRL almost on a par with SRRobinson though, or something like that.

[NWS]

Originally Posted by lora

And posting up some basic rankings for info purposes swayed you to that extent? or was it something else in the thread.

That's really all they are too. Fun though at times, and they tend to mean the world over in the General. Have you seen the rankings of various Mayweather opponents? Its the stuff of legends.

Originally Posted by Addie

It tends to be forgotten, but Duran-Leonard I was a close fight. Duran's victory over Barkley was perhaps more convincing.

Absolutely.

In championing Ray Leonard, you're also championing Duran. Only a world class fighter of the highest quality could have defeated a 147lbs Leonard. He was that good.

Hit the jackpot here, Addie. What's more is that it's just as grounded in real truth as it is an agenda.

[Addie]

Benitez wasn't an outstanding Welterweight, I agree with you, but Leonard dominated him. I think Benitez won 2-3 rounds on my card. The manner of victory is everything.

[lora]

Think Duran Barkley was a fair bit closer than Duran Leonard.

Leonard never held the initiative against Duran for more than two rounds circa 5,6,7 or so.

barkley on the other hand was pumping the jab into his face for a good half of the bout.

[lora]

out of interest N, was that fighters that were ranked at the time they fought Duran and Leonard by ring? or by WBA\WBC ?

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by orriray59

The thing that makes the SRL victory as special as it is, is the fact that Leonard didn't lose again until he was well past it fighting at weight classes he shouldn't have been fighting at.

Yeah, but he only fought 12 more times in his entire career, that's including up to 1997 Hector Camacho.
If you want to talk about prime, then SRL maybe fought 4 - 7 more times in anything you'd call his prime.
Maybe, just maybe, he would have lost a few more if he'd been a more active fighter ?

[Addie]

Originally Posted by lora

Think Duran Barkley was a fair bit closer than Duran Leonard.

Leonard never held the initiative against Duran for more than two rounds circa 5,6,7 or so.

barkley on the other hand was pumping the jab into his face for a good half of the bout.

Fair enough.

I had Duran beating Barkley by 2-3 points. he swept the last few rounds and scored a heavy knockdown. In contrast to the fight with Leonard, it was him giving away the last remaining rounds.

[orriray59]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

I believe Benitez is overrated as a welterweight champion.
Leonard too - perhaps by extension.
And, yes, as great as it was, Duran's win over Leonard is overrated, or at least it's given a 'special' rating for the wrong reasons, imo.
Any time a lightweight champ moves up and captures the welter crown it's a big deal, imo, especially from a good or great fighter.
I think people tend to put SRL almost on a par with SRRobinson though, or something like that.

Whereabouts do you think SRL stands as a welterweight?

[NWS]

Originally Posted by lora

out of interest N, was that fighters that were ranked at the time they fought Duran and Leonard by ring? or by WBA\WBC ?

The RING. Those were at the time of the fight rankings as well, not Annual's as retrieved off boxrec. Two posters KOKid and hhascup have all the monthly issues in hard copy, and I've gotten them for a small assortment of different fighters but it's a bit of a hassle I think I'm causing by requesting any more. Nice for info purposes, though.