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Old 01-22-2013, 04:29 PM   #76
Sugar Nick
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Default Re: Chad Dawson is making a big mistake...again!

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Originally Posted by PityTheFool View Post
If one thing is crystal clear,it's that Chad seems completely incapable of looking inwards when it comes to accountability.I was never sold completely on Chad because my main gripe was that he could be terribly lazy during rounds when he had the ability to utterly dominate,but I felt going back with Ice was a good move.It's a rare occasion that I don't mind if Hopkins loses,so that tells me that I had bought into Chad,but I suspect it was more wanting John Scully to do well,because Chad's conduct here confirms my initial gut feeling was right.
We can all pick times where Chad looked good,but there's a far deeper issue here,and Ice was good enough when they were winning.
What would've happened if Chad had won? Would the Facebook issue have mattered?
Yeah I mean we can only guess right? It's Chad's mind. It's crazy how he is still the light heavyweight world champ but it doesn't feel true.
He's gotta do some soul searching as they say.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:50 PM   #77
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Default Re: Chad Dawson is making a big mistake...again!

Dawson is a ****ing Diva. Damn shame because the guy is talented but mentally weak.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:53 PM   #78
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Default Re: Chad Dawson is making a big mistake...again!

Chad Dawson is one of the most retarded fighters in boxing.

Just in general how he goes about things.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:57 PM   #79
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Default Re: Chad Dawson is making a big mistake...again!

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Yeah I mean we can only guess right? It's Chad's mind. It's crazy how he is still the light heavyweight world champ but it doesn't feel true.
He's gotta do some soul searching as they say.
Good way of putting it mate.
Sadly though,I don't think Chad does soul searching.I thought I saw a different side to him in the rematch with Bernard.It was only a split-second silly thing that probably only mattered to me,but when they clashed heads,and Chad said "C'mon man!" something told me this was a different guy,and in my head I felt that things were coming together.The whole package I mean,with Ice in the corner and I could now buy into Chad..
I never enjoy Bernard losing,but that one felt OK.
And now I know I had it all wrong.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:59 PM   #80
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Default Re: Chad Dawson is making a big mistake...again!

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Chad Dawson is one of the most retarded fighters in boxing.

Just in general how he goes about things.
Did you read the interview with Big Floyd PK?
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:04 PM   #81
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Default Re: Chad Dawson is making a big mistake...again!

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Did you read the interview with Big Floyd PK?
No...

In recent years the only time when Chad Dawson has really turned up is..? Hopkins vs Dawson I.

I wonder if he has some kind of a mental illness, because during the second Hopkins fight he looked like a totally different fighter.

He had this scared/confused look on his face for most of the fight.

Bernard Hopkin's for me, destroyed Chad Dawson mentally.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:18 PM   #82
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Default Re: Chad Dawson is making a big mistake...again!

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No...

In recent years the only time when Chad Dawson has really turned up is..? Hopkins vs Dawson I.

I wonder if he has some kind of a mental illness, because during the second Hopkins fight he looked like a totally different fighter.

He had this scared/confused look on his face for most of the fight.

Bernard Hopkin's for me, destroyed Chad Dawson mentally.
You need to read that interview.On phone so can't link.
Just google "Floyd Snr Chad Dawson 2007"
It's uncanny
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:02 PM   #83
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Default Re: Chad Dawson is making a big mistake...again!

After all said and done Chad could win every round in Canada and won't win this fight. The only victory is by a KO only.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:09 PM   #84
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Default Re: Chad Dawson is making a big mistake...again!

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Originally Posted by Primadonna Kool View Post
No...

In recent years the only time when Chad Dawson has really turned up is..? Hopkins vs Dawson I.

I wonder if he has some kind of a mental illness, because during the second Hopkins fight he looked like a totally different fighter.

He had this scared/confused look on his face for most of the fight.

Bernard Hopkin's for me, destroyed Chad Dawson mentally.
How you do destroy a guy mentally by running all night? lol
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:18 PM   #85
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Default Re: Chad Dawson is making a big mistake...again!

As usual, I agree with Pity. Scully was fine in the corner and, based on the little interaction I saw on the 24/7, a good fit. He cared about Chad.

At some point every person needs to hold themselves accountable. Multiple trainers indicates Chad isn't doing that.

My one caveat is that we don't know who decided going down to 168 would work. If Scully was a driving force in that decision, I can see Chad letting him go, although I would expect a face to face parting of the ways.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:48 PM   #86
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Default Re: Chad Dawson is making a big mistake...again!

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Originally Posted by Primadonna Kool View Post
No...

In recent years the only time when Chad Dawson has really turned up is..? Hopkins vs Dawson I.

I wonder if he has some kind of a mental illness, because during the second Hopkins fight he looked like a totally different fighter.

He had this scared/confused look on his face for most of the fight.

Bernard Hopkin's for me, destroyed Chad Dawson mentally.
He's had that look on his face ever since he fought Johnson.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:50 PM   #87
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Default Re: Chad Dawson is making a big mistake...again!

I've just heard EMM talking about Chad and he's saying that they've always had a specual relationship etc.
It would take more than this to make me take a dislike to Eddie,but I suspect there was a dig at Chad's previous conditioning,and if I'm not mistaken Ice said he had his own S&C guy,so I'd love to know what it is that Chad is saying John Scully doesn't have,because the person who seems to be lacking integrity amongst other things is Chad.

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Old 02-20-2013, 10:50 PM   #88
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Default Re: Chad Dawson is making a big mistake...again!

FYI, Part 1:


Seconds Out: Following his loss to Andre Ward Chad Dawson announced he would be replacing you as his head trainer and returning to Eddie Mustafa Muhammad. When did you find out your services were no longer required?

ICE: I found out about two weeks or so ago when someone posted it on my facebook wall, an interview Chad did on youtube.

Seconds Out: How did he break the news to you?

ICE: Chad never broke any news to me whatsover, not even a facebook break up note. Never called me, never contacted me. I haven't spoken to him literally since the night of the Ward fight in California. It's apparently not in him to handle things the proper way. He did it to his first coach years ago, Brian Clark. He did it to Eddie Mustapha the first time. He did it to Emanuel Steward. He just pretends you never existed and, really, as a man, as someone who tried to help him, as someone who has known him since he was a kid? I'm completely disgusted with this whole thing. But I can't say it's a shock to me, either.

Seconds Out: Chad has had many trainers in his professional career to date. Did you find it difficult to establish a relationship with someone who changes trainers like most other people change clothes?!

ICE: To be honest, up until this last fight, I felt we had a pretty good connection. After the Hopkins fight, though, it was just so different. For better or worse, he just kind of marches to the beat of his own drum. He would come into the gym, into the car, wherever we were, and wouldn't talk. Wouldn't say a word to me. I tried to chalk it up to him having the biggest fight of his life coming up and the tension and stress that comes with that but I could also see that he didn't seem to have any problems speaking to or hanging out with the other guys on our team. The only time at all that I can remember him speaking directly to me during camp for the Ward fight was when the HBO cameras were there one day filming us for 24/7. It was weird. In the gym sometimes I'd try to get him to do things I had planned for him, the same type things we did for the Hopkins fights but he'd brush it off, tell me he wasn't going to do that on that particular day. I mean, it got to be a thing where he was telling me what he was going to do and when. It got to be almost comical.

I remember one time in particular he texted me to ask my permission to take a day off from the gym. Like he wouldn't have taken it off if I said not to. But then a week later he just doesn't show up to the gym. Never calls to let me know, nothing. I just go there and wait a half hour for him to show up until I decide to text one of the guys on his team and he tells me that Chad isn't training that day.

Now I don't know if he felt I needed to argue with him and establish myself as the head trainer in the situation or what, I don't know, but I don't work that way. You hired me to be the head trainer so we both already know my job. Now if you walk in and start listening to other people and want to listen to other people then go ahead, do your thing. I shouldn't have to walk over there and remind you who is in charge of your training. But it wasn't that way this time and I just didn't want to argue about it. If I need to argue and debate and have to convince you to do the things that I need and want you to do then screw it, I'm just not going to argue. That's not me. Do whatever you want if you know so much and we can just wait and see how it turns out for you.

Seconds Out: Do you think he could be an improved fighter if he remained with one trainer and learned and absorbed their teachings rather than leave as soon as he lost?

ICE: Of course. Definitely. But not just that. You have to remain focused and humble no matter how big you get. The trainer is always going to see more than the fighter. Some things that your trainer might want you to do, maybe you feel like it doesn't have a point or isn't applicable but if the trainer wants you to do it then he must see a reasoning for it. He must see some benefit. And if you don't even ask or inquire as to what that benefit might be but, rather, you just dismiss it and go do whatever it is you yourself feel like doing then what do you need the trainer for? Once I saw that things had veered off down that road I knew deep down that I wouldn't be returning for another camp. Whether it was my doing or his doing I wasn't coming back.

Seconds Out: During the build up to the fight against Ward were there any signs you saw that suggested he would have trouble in the fight or was it just that Andre was too good on the night?
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:52 PM   #89
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Default Re: Chad Dawson is making a big mistake...again!

Part 2...

ICE: It was clear to me that the weight was a huge issue for him. He doesn't want me to use that as any type of excuse and I'm not, it's more of a factor and a reason than an excuse. But I'm a free agent now, no longer on his team, so I can and will speak on it any way I choose to if only to clear my name because the fact of the matter is that during training for that fight I made my concerns very clear to his strength coach and nutritionist that I felt that things were being handled very wrong and that there was no way Chad would be strong for the fight. My concerns not only fell on deaf ears but they were rudely rejected. I was told that I "didn't know what I was talking about" but the fact is that in regards to what was happening to Chad right before our very eyes I was actually the only one who had any idea what he was talking about!

I mean, look, I was very rudely told that I didn't know what I was talking about by this strength guy. And after the fight, a few weeks ago, Chad goes on youtube to somehow say that he is at a level now where I couldn't teach him anything anymore like before. Now I'm insulted by him and I'm embarrassed for him that he feels the need to go this route. First of all, do I have to point to specific moments in order to back up my own qualifications for this guy?? What happens in the gym normally stays in the gym but if you really feel like you need to go on a world wide forum and imply that I somehow wasn't ready to work with a guy like you then I think it's only fair that I come back when asked to do so on a similar forum and defend myself because this boxing game is a business for us now and it's my future as a trainer that you are attempting to damage and limit and I can't just sit here and allow that to happen. My side must be told.

You can't imply these things when the fact is that it was me who was right there in the corner pushing you through the rough spots during the Hopkins fight when you won the title. Never forget that you had reached a point in that fight where Hopkins was warming up and you were taking your foot off the pedal as many expected you would do. You needed me to help you through that fight in the corner at pivotal moments and I definitely did my job live right there on HBO. Well enough that immediately after the fight in the dressing room you handed me your trunks from the fight as a show of respect and appreciation.

Now if you're going to imply that I wasn't ready to teach you anything or influence you in the gym then let me remind you of pivotal moments that you apparently have forgotten about. Take for example, in training for our previous fight when he was having trouble getting out of the way of the counter left hook of Yusef Mack in sparring. Every time he rushed in and tried to impose himself on Yusef he got clipped clean with left hooks. I gave him time to work it out himself but he never did. So after a day or two of that I told him to give Yusef a hard feint first and when Yuself reacts by letting that hook go I want you to let it go by your face and then counter immediately with three or four quick shots. And the next round that's exactly what happened. Chad did it perfectly and I'm telling you now that wasn't happening at that time if I wasn't there.

There was another issue we had with another sparring partner, a Cuban guy from Florida, where this guy was able to neutralize Chad by sitting on the ropes and sort of mesmerizing Chad for a few moments while he sat there and plotted things. He was able to successfully and skillfully take a moment or two and set Chad up for some good shots. So I told Chad that every time this guy backs to the ropes I want him to quickly advance and let his hands go in combination without even thinking about it. Just do it. I even showed him a little trick with the feet to close the distance quicker. And from literally that moment onward there were no more problems from that particular sparring partner.

Now I don't tell you these things to say I'm a great trainer or anything like that but, rather, only to very clearly illustrate for you and that him saying I "couldn't show him anything because I'm too advanced" is very unrealistic and unfair and actually pretty pompous of him to say and especially to actually believe.

I can also point to the situation after the widely reported knockdown he suffered against Edsion Miranda in the gym a couple weeks before the Ward fight as a pivotal moment in the preparation for that match. I knew suffering an embarrassment like that can have tremendous mental damage on a fighter so I relayed to Chad a very important story about how Quincy Taylor dropped Sugar Ray Leonard in the last sparring session Ray had before he fought Hagler. Ray was dropped in the gym training for a fight where he actually was planning to go in toe to toe with Marvin but that knockdown did nothing but wake Ray up to the fact that he needed to not bang it out with a stronger man like Hagler and you saw the subsequent showing Ray put on that night. He was able to turn a huge negative into a huge positive and I relayed that story to Chad and what I got from him was a text back that said, "See, that's why I brought you back in to my corner and that's what makes you a great trainer. Thanks. I'm looking forward to sparring again!"

And then two days later he was back to ignoring me in the gym and in camp like I wasn't even there.

Seconds Out: Did you suggest any tactical adjustments he could make when it became clear Ward was beginning to get on top?

ICE: Ever since the first day I ever officially worked with Chad I had always urged him to be more of a boxer than a slugger. To use his physical gifts, his reflexes, his speed and especially his jab and combination punching. But the whole thing in training for this fight was the strength guy talking about how strong Chad was going to be and how hard Chad was going to hit. "Every punch he hits Ward with he's going to hurt him." That's all I kept hearing.
As far as fight night goes, the thing for me in the corner was this. I could see Chad was struggling with the weight loss and the fact of the matter is that his body wasn't responding whatsoever. He was getting hit with shots that normally he could absorb with no trouble but these shots were getting him hurt and dazed.
I mean, here are the facts. I can leave it to the boxing world's coaches and trainers and fighters to decide. You tell me if this was good or not for any fighter on this planet.

FACT: On July 7th we got to Las Vegas and Chad weighed 182 pounds. It was 111 degrees there that day.

FACT: Five weeks later on August 13 Chad weighed in after working out at 184 pounds. He somehow gained two pounds in five weeks after training, running mountains or on the treadmill six days a week, sparring and dieting in plus-100 degree weather.

FACT: I made my concerns very well known that day to his strength coach/nutritionist who not only shot down my concerns but also nastily told me that I didn't know what I was talking about. He told me that he didn't interfere with my job and that I shouldn't interfere with his job.

FACT: I replied to him by telling him that the fact of the matter is that anything and everything he is doing now that affects this fight is going to reflect solely on myself and on Chad after all is said and done. I told him he was going to be able to go back to his home after the fight and no one was going to know his name or what he did here. It was all going to fall on me.

FACT: Four weeks later, on September 6th, at 7 p.m. the night before the weigh-in, Chad weighed in at 175 pounds. Meaning that not only did he only lose a pitiful seven pounds in nine weeks of training in plus 100 degree heat but he still had seven more to lose before the weigh-in the following afternoon at 3 pm. So he is brought to the treadmill where he runs for 50 minutes on the dot and then sits in the sauna afterwards for 25 minutes. I know the length of time because I sat in there with him. So instead of him being able to physically and mentally rest and relax before the fight he is forced to go through the strain of melting away seven pounds on the last night before the official weigh-in.

FACT: Chad Dawson not only didn't eat anything for the entire day before the weigh-in (according to Chad himself) but he also didn't eat anything that night or the next day unless you count the juice he was able to suck out of a grapefruit that night. As a matter of fact, he wouldn't even have been allowed to have that if I didn't urge the strength coach to let him take in something. He initially refuted the suggestion and I knew it was trouble when the normally quiet Chad spoke up to tell this man, "Come on, I haven't eaten anything since last night!"

So off he went to suck down whatever juice he could pull from that single grapefruit.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:53 PM   #90
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Default Re: Chad Dawson is making a big mistake...again!

PART 3:

Now, granted, I am no genius when it comes to protein, enzymes, calories and vitamins but I certainly know enough to assure you that the method devised by this man bordered on insanity. I certainly know enough about how to read a scale that I can look down and see what it says the fighter next to me weighs in at. I mean, everyone saw the fight. Is anyone in their right mind going to tell me improper weight loss didn't contribute greatly to that showing? I point these things out because his strength coach has gone on record after the fight as saying that the weight loss didn't affect Chad at all despite the fact that I told him well in advance where things were headed as a result of it. And I feel like if someone says it wasn't the weight loss then the reason Chad looked as he did must be at least in part because of the boxing trainer. I mean, when the fighter loses badly and the trainer is fired immediately afterwards then it stands to reason that they believe the boxing coach was at least partially at fault, right?

As further indication of this, Chad is going to sit there soon after the fight and look into a reporters camera on youtube and imply that I somehow wasn't ready to handle his training for the fight? Please. Chad Dawson is a much, much better fighter than he showed that night. All credit to Andre Ward, the man is a beast and a true champion. I have nothing but respect for that guy in and out of the ring now but I also know enough about Chad Dawson and what the preparations for that fight entailed to feel you need to know what he endured to get to that weight. I'm not even saying Chad beats him if he makes weight in great fashion. I'm just saying there is no question it would have been a much, much better fight.

On my end as the trainer of record, I unfortunately know all too well what it feels like to be in that situation as a boxer and I knew that even the best technical advice in the world wasn't going to matter as much or even have an impact because Chad's body and his brain just weren't in synch with each other that night. When you're losing weight like that it affects your ability to receive specific instructions and actually carry them out. You want to but your body has trouble responding. So I felt I needed to tap into his emotions and into his mind and try and reach him that way. I felt I needed to set off some kind of spark in him that would get him to let his hands go.

But telling someone how to drive a million dollar race car properly doesn't mean much when one tire is flat, the gas is low and the engine is sputtering out. You don't need a new driver nearly as much as you need a new car.


Seconds Out: Do you believe if he finds the right coach for him that he could fight and beat Ward in the future?


ICE: I honestly believe he had the right coach for him when they fought in September. But it's like with a college or high school student who has an at least decent professor in class with him every day. If you're not heeding the advice given you then it means you're willingly putting yourself on your own left to your own physical and mental devices. Clearly that's not a workable situation no matter who the coach is. I do think the best Chad Dawson has to offer could be enough to beat anyone his weight in the world.


Seconds Out: I believe he fights Jean Pascal next. Could you break that fight down for me?


ICE: I think there is obviously a lot of intrigue and stories behind the fight. Chad being with Eddie again is a story in itself. There is also the controversial ending the first time out. It's actually interesting to me because of the fact that Jean is coming off a fight where he injured his arm badly and Chad is coming off of a fight where his weight depleted body took some real abuse so while both guys may come in not at absolutely 100 percent physical and mental capability, they will still be sort of on par with each other. So it's going to depend on how each guy reacts to and performs after having go through some real trying times recently. Mental strength will be a huge factor in this one, definitely.


Seconds Out: Finally, what is next for you in your career? Any training gigs or commentary positions?


ICE: I haven't done any work recently for ESPN, although they continue to regularly show the fights I called with Joe Tessitore on ESPN Classic. I've had a few inquiries over the last few months from different people asking if I'd be available to do some shows on different networks and I've always said I'm ready to go. Just waiting on an official word now.

I am also training a few pro and amateur boxers on a daily basis including a very solid and talented welterweight in undefeated Javie "El Chino" Flores. He just won by a knockout this past weekend in Oklahoma and it looks as though his next fight will be an ESPN televised match on the Lamont Petersen-Kendall Holt show in Washington D.C. in February.

So boxing is going well for me right now. No complaints whatsoever, believe me.
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