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Old 01-23-2013, 04:33 PM   #46
Flea Man
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Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
Of course not, I just don`t see in him why so many rank him the best ever MW. I think a guy like Robinson could/would beat him comfortably.
Who would you say is the closest to Monzon stylistically that Robinson beat?

Also, people rank him highly because of his consistency and title reign. Not because 'he'd beat everyone'.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:34 PM   #47
lora
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Default Re: ATGs who don't look impressive on film.

For the whole stiff standup thing failing to impress that seems hard for many to get past with Monzon and others, Gene Tunney is the worst looking i'd say.

I wouldn't say there are any ATG's i don't think look impressive at the end of the day, though.

Some like Saddler i don't enjoy watching fight.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:48 PM   #48
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Default Re: ATGs who don't look impressive on film.

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And a draft dodging pimp hobo is some kind of hero?

I have no problem with draft dodgers. It's between them and the government.
Hobo was a way of life in harder times.
Pimping I think is wrong.
I don't hero worship Dempsey anyway, and by all accounts whatever he did in his early days he was a gentleman in his retirement.

Monzon was a repeated woman-beater during his heyday and in his retirement, to the point of murdering his wife with his bare hands, strangling her to death and dumping her body over the balcony.
I think that puts him beyond the pale.
But maybe I'm just not 'macho' enough to understand his lifestyle.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:54 PM   #49
Bill Butcher
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Default Re: ATGs who don't look impressive on film.

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Who would you say is the closest to Monzon stylistically that Robinson beat?

Also, people rank him highly because of his consistency and title reign. Not because 'he'd beat everyone'.
Good point that SRR never fought anyone like Monzon style or attribute wise, I just see him as a far better fighter & think he`d win comfortably, doesn`t really matter though.

I know Monzon is ranked highly more for the consistency & title defences factors rather than H2H, I just don`t see him as a fighter I like to watch too much & there are far better looking fighters on film I`d rather watch or study to learn from, Monzon`s style worked very well for him though, the proof is in his record.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:56 PM   #50
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Default Re: ATGs who don't look impressive on film.

Monzon jumped to mind the instant I saw the title of this thread. I think hes overrated but he would have been difficult for anyone to fight.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:02 PM   #51
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Default Re: ATGs who don't look impressive on film.

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
I have no problem with draft dodgers. It's between them and the government.
Hobo was a way of life in harder times.
Pimping I think is wrong.
I don't hero worship Dempsey anyway, and by all accounts whatever he did in his early days he was a gentleman in his retirement.

Monzon was a repeated woman-beater during his heyday and in his retirement, to the point of murdering his wife with his bare hands, strangling her to death and dumping her body over the balcony.
I think that puts him beyond the pale.
But maybe I'm just not 'macho' enough to understand his lifestyle.
Meh, he had a bad day.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:11 PM   #52
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Default Re: ATGs who don't look impressive on film.

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Not an ATG, but I really don't get the big fuss over Howard Winstone. I see nothing remotely exceptional about him. He seems to be famous solely for having lost three times to Saldivar.


And while I fully acquiesce that Saldivar was quite great indeed based on his accomplishments, his style seems very pedantic to me and one of the least dynamic of any featherweight ATG.
ouch! I don't want to come off as too assholeish and think you're a really good honest poster Sal, but are you sure you gave him enough of a fair watch on his own merits without letting the comparisons between him and Sanchez as mexico's top featherweights cloud or agitate you a bit?.

Fair play if he just isn't for you and of course it would follow if you're not impressed with him you wouldn't be impressed with who he beat either.

I think stuff like Saldivar v Ramos, Laguna, Seki rematch, first two Winstone fights, Famechon fight are all feather classics full of dynamic two-way skill and back and forth exchanges.

For Winstone i can see how he's not for everyone as well.Being a semi-standup fighter and not being any kind of puncher despite often fighting like one, though imo he was a really good textbook fighter with a superb left hand.I'd compare him as a feather to the often underrated Ruben Castillo, though imo Winstone was a better jabber and a bit sharper overall.

His name was made on his skill being highly rated as he worked his way through various contenders and then the first two Saldivar fights which were as big as barrera vs Morales back then.Not a long prime though.a lot of the footage of him is past his best, but the fights with the talented baby luis and er, less talented Eduardo Guerrero are good fights from his best days htat are up on youtube.Gives a more rounded view on his abilites, as saldivar was a tough stylistic match being a southpaw staight puncher against orthodox jabber, even putting talent aside.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:20 PM   #53
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Default Re: ATGs who don't look impressive on film.

What about the Tunney mention by me.Anyone else that doesn't dig Monzon feel the same way about him? Just curious.

I find it easier to name great or excellent fighters that i think had numerous unimpressive fights in or near their prime, rather than just looked unimpressive all the time.

Morales has more than most for me. In-jin Chi/Espadas jr/mcCullough\Zaragoza

Those are genuinely unimpressive imo.But he could step it up against the better fighters.

calzaghe and Eubank have about ten between them.Marquez a fair few as well if you think his prime stretches to his lightweight days.Chang a few as well if extend his prime into his latter title reign.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:24 PM   #54
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Default Re: ATGs who don't look impressive on film.

Funny enough I enjoy watching Tunney but don't Monzon... I can see why you say what you did, but I guess personally I don't see it that way.. :shrugs:
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:33 PM   #55
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Default Re: ATGs who don't look impressive on film.

White standup boxers can't look good on film.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:39 PM   #56
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Default Re: ATGs who don't look impressive on film.

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Originally Posted by lora View Post
What about the Tunney mention by me.Anyone else that doesn't dig Monzon feel the same way about him? Just curious
I think that Tunney is the best looking fighter on film pre-Joe Louis who is not named Leonard.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:54 PM   #57
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Default Re: ATGs who don't look impressive on film.

Don't forget about J.J. big buddy
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:57 PM   #58
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Funny enough I enjoy watching Tunney but don't Monzon... I can see why you say what you did, but I guess personally I don't see it that way.. :shrugs:

It took a LONG time to like monzon personally. i more appreciate him than enjoy him...i would never put him on when i want a "popcorn fight"
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:07 PM   #59
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Default Re: ATGs who don't look impressive on film.

Jack Dempsey. Good combinations, good punch, hell of a left hook. His head movement was big, as in crude, open defensively, sloppy with single punches, ragged feet sometimes, can't cut off the ring well.

Rid**** Bowe -- lacks focus, open defensively, little ring generalship or ring IQ. Won the gene lottery though.

Sam Langford (not as impressive as his historical standing would suggest).

Arturo Gatti. (HoF, after all)

Primo Carnera. Size, strength..that's about it.

I might add more later as I think of them.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:26 PM   #60
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Default Re: ATGs who don't look impressive on film.

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Don't forget about J.J. big buddy
He looks better than JJ.
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