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Old 01-23-2013, 03:28 PM   #61
highguard
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
I know, I'm saying you're right - your extensive practical experience has exposed you to higher knowledge such as "nonathletic looking people are often actually NON ATHLETIC" whereas I, as you so accurately determined, am but a physical minnow, unable to tell my tendon insertion points from my muscle fibers. Now please stop having a go at me.

again a remark,
answer the question
have you boxed yourself or done any combat sport

its a simple
yes or no
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:31 PM   #62
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by Synthetic Decay View Post
I can tell from your posts you know jack about bodybuilding or boxing, i'll personal train you if you like and then maybe you will know what the **** you are talking about.

It's obvious to anyone but a count to potato type of guy the reasoning behind physiques differing down the era's.

i dont you can box a round with me

and tell what the **** can you teach me about boxing or bodybuilding or grappling or anything

when you probably never worked out a day in your life

**** as soon as someone mentions weights
all you guys get insecure


and you knew anything about weights, you would not be on the side
that says all weight training is not boxers
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:32 PM   #63
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by highguard View Post
again a remark,
answer the question
have you boxed yourself or done any combat sport

its a simple
yes or no
I'm afraid to say. You might call me out.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:35 PM   #64
Synthetic Decay
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by highguard View Post
i dont you can box a round with me

and tell what the **** can you teach me about boxing or bodybuilding or grappling or anything

when you probably never worked out a day in your life

**** as soon as someone mentions weights
all you guys get insecure


and you knew anything about weights, you would not be on the side
that says all weight training is not boxers


I didn't say anything about weight training not being for boxers. Who doesn't resistance train in modern pro sport?


Edited the rest.

Last edited by Synthetic Decay; 01-23-2013 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:05 PM   #65
Seamus
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

I get totally shredded.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:42 PM   #66
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
Yeah boxers back then only did exercises that would be beneficial to a boxer. Running, sparring, skipping, speed and heavy bag plus push ups, sit ups, wrist and neck exercises was basically all that was done, because that was all that was needed. Additional exercises like swimming, rowing and axe training all had benefits to a boxer compared to something like bicep curl which has no benefits beyond aesthetics.
I think that this is a very interesting point. I can remember many years ago, where a mate of mine, who was about the same strength as me, before he went on a steroid and weight lifting kick to the point where he could lift probably twice as much as me, maybe more. I never have really lifted weights for the simple reason that i find them boring and am too lazy. I was at the time though able to do 100 pushups and sit ups with ease (at a very fast pace) and i could run as fast as anyone. Naturally he was probably about 5 kg bigger than me but at the time he was probably about 20-25 kg.

I can remember that one night he had just bought some knew gadget where you had to pull it out and push it in as many times as you could. He told me how hard it was when I laughed at hims because he could not do any more than about 20 or so. We agreed to a challenge and i ended up doing 21 with ease. (admittedly i may have cheated a bit by using my back and body rather than the strict technique that was supposed to be used). NOt happy at losing (we had the challenger a couple of times), he challenged me to an arm wrestle to determine superiority. Again, i beat him (to my surprise).

The point being, that the weight lifting he did had massive benefits for strength, but it seemed to benefit certain areas more. In boxing terms, I think this is born out. It must improve a punch a bit, but not to the extent that it improves ability to do other things such as lifting. I am not convinced that the current gym trainers wouldnt be better off going out and doing some heavy yard work or furniture removal or something similar to achieve the same results without the weight gain. Although maybe i am wrong.

My personal theory is that the problem with most weight training is that weight lift technique requires lifting only with the arm muscle for example where as proper punching requires use of the back shoulder leg etc. If i was training full time and required a weight lifting resume, i think i would have to limit it to throwing punches with weights in my hand, and maybe running or sparring with strap on weights. Anything else would seem wasteful to me. But maybe i am wrong.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:57 PM   #67
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Doing Olympic lifts with proper technique will add to power, strength and coordination.

Sprinters, footballers, clued up boxers all do compound movements.

Compound movements are nothing but beneficial, squats, deads, bench will build all round strength.

Doing reps and reps of an isolation exercise like curls isn't going to help you much no.

Also arm wrestling is very technical and some people have far more natural aptitude for it than others.

Last edited by Synthetic Decay; 01-23-2013 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:59 PM   #68
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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No contest. The old timers were much bigger and more muscular, because as multiple people have implicitly said in this thread, the right comparison is between >130 lbers and <230 lbers.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:05 PM   #69
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by highguard View Post
i dont you can box a round with me

and tell what the **** can you teach me about boxing or bodybuilding or grappling or anything

when you probably never worked out a day in your life

**** as soon as someone mentions weights
all you guys get insecure


and you knew anything about weights, you would not be on the side
that says all weight training is not boxers
i will fight u
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:12 PM   #70
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by Synthetic Decay View Post
Doing Olympic lifts with proper technique will add to power, strength and coordination.

Sprinters, footballers, clued up boxers all do compound movements.

Compound movements are nothing but beneficial, squats, deads, bench will build all round strength.

Doing reps and reps of an isolation exercise like curls isn't going to help you much no.

Also arm wrestling is very technical and some people have far more natural aptitude for it than others.
I'll back this.

I'm rather large and rather ripped, thanks to very knowledgeable people around me training me, and this is pretty much what we do. I haven't done a curl in camp in a decade.

And agreed on the arm wrestling. I've armwrestled Johnny Brzenk, him for fun, me for curiosity. That little SOB pulled me so fast my head spinned.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:41 PM   #71
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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i am talking about fighters from like the 1930's to like 1950's

but looking at them, some of them didnt look like they ever been to a gym

i always found this kind of odd

but still boxing and body weight excersies alone
should give atleast an in shape look
I forgot this isnt an ''in shape'' look

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Old 01-24-2013, 12:36 AM   #72
highguard
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by Shake View Post
i will fight u
you wont lol



and the whole thing about compound excersies vs isolation ones

compound ones are much better for a fighter for sure
but isolation are good if you had injuries, like if your coming off a shoulder surgery etc


all that being said
a boxer who has not done weight training
and just starts stuff like deadlifts from the start
instead of isolation stuff is more prone to be injuried

like a friend of mine, who is a middleweight amatuer with about 60 fights
wanted to weights but "not bodybuilding"

so started with deadlifts and injuried his back a bit
and had to take 2 weeks off


and yes he was being coached,
just his body was used to that kind of stress


so i think some isolation work is needed for a newbie to weights
before compound ones
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:48 AM   #73
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by highguard View Post
you wont lol



and the whole thing about compound excersies vs isolation ones

compound ones are much better for a fighter for sure
but isolation are good if you had injuries, like if your coming off a shoulder surgery etc


all that being said
a boxer who has not done weight training
and just starts stuff like deadlifts from the start
instead of isolation stuff is more prone to be injuried

like a friend of mine, who is a middleweight amatuer with about 60 fights
wanted to weights but "not bodybuilding"

so started with deadlifts and injuried his back a bit
and had to take 2 weeks off


and yes he was being coached,
just his body was used to that kind of stress


so i think some isolation work is needed for a newbie to weights
before compound ones
that is actually what they recommend..even as far as getting into body building, i know Arnie in his book suggested being good at push ups and body weight movements first.
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:08 AM   #74
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
I'll back this.

I'm rather large and rather ripped, thanks to very knowledgeable people around me training me, and this is pretty much what we do. I haven't done a curl in camp in a decade.

And agreed on the arm wrestling. I've armwrestled Johnny Brzenk, him for fun, me for curiosity. That little SOB pulled me so fast my head spinned.
In your defense, Brzenk has dominated armwrestling at the highest level since the mid 80s...he's beaten absolutely huge and musuclar men with relative ease more times than can be counted.

Such as 0:16 of this video:

BORKED

Edit: don't know why the video is not popping up.

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He destroys many a huge men in that video.

One thing I have noticed, though is that there is a very distinct difference in being pure weight lifting strong and having functional fighting strength.

For instance, I'm 5'8, and only 145 lbs. I've only had 2 people clearly establish themselves as being stronger than I was in the ring. The one was about my size, the other bigger.

About a year ago (I was 140lbs at the time) I was sparring a guy who was about 5'7, 170 lbs (solid, very little fat) pretty frequently. He out lifted me pretty clearly a few times in the gym with weights, but when we sparred I established myself as being the stronger of the two of us pretty clearly in the ring. I was able to push him and shove him all around, even when he tried his best not to let it happen.

The first time we sparred I walked him down and he looked to box me the way Cotto did vs Margarito, but I could tell it bothed him that I just kept applying pressure with little respect for his punching power or physical strength.

The second time we sparred, I could tell right from the first bell he was looking to back me up. Having a slightly longer reach, my strategy was to back him up and keep him at the end of my punches, primarily my jab, because he had shorter, more compact punches than me. I am a good infighter too, though which helped a lot of times. He tried to impose his 30lb weight advantage on me by trying to shove me back into the ropes where he would force me to exert more energy to get out. To his dismay, I overpower him and ended up walking him back into a corner and forced him to work harder than me. I found it interesting though, knowing that he would likely destroy me in armwrestling and knowing that he could definitely destroy me in a weight lifting competition, that I was able to outmuscle him in the ring pretty easily, even when he made it his goal to outmuscle me.
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:21 AM   #75
Seamus
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

There's a really good documentary on Brzenk. Seems like a nice, humble guy who was just blessed with a ridiculous talent at a marginal sport.
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