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Old 01-22-2013, 08:35 PM   #106
Synthetic Decay
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

Toney by late stoppage.

Jack comes out barnstorming, misses a lot, lands a few, gets countered a lot and subsequently starts to fatigue. Gets stopped late.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:17 PM   #107
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

Dempsey was a great for his era. Toney would toy with him and win by KO when he wants.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:10 AM   #108
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

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Originally Posted by benebox View Post
Dempsey was a great for his era. Toney would toy with him and win by KO when he wants.
Dempsey didnt stand back away from his opponents and throw jabs looking to set something up he went straight in and i dont see Toney blocking all of Dempseys very fast combinations while Dempsey has his head on Toneys left arm, i think the speed of Dempsey is being underrated for this fantasy fight

And what is Toney going to throw enough hard punches to keep Dempsey away from him Toneys going to let him stand close to him and Dempseys going to destroy him with his left hook and combinatons
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:33 AM   #109
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

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Originally Posted by brnxhands View Post
Toney and pretty easily. He doesnt get anough credit. He beat a huge punching massive man in sam peter, another big punching huge guy in rahman. Toney would school Jack an i'm not Dempsey hater.
This.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:24 AM   #110
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

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Originally Posted by Son of Gaul View Post
This.
Sam Peter and Rahman were beaten because they played into Toneys hand, Dempsey would crowd him and i really hope your are not agreeing that Peter and Rahman had the speed and combination punching ability of Dempsey
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:25 AM   #111
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

How can Toney dodge 4 to 5 to 6 punches coming in at the speed Dempsey could through them not a chance, Dempsey would catch him and take him out...
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:31 AM   #112
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

Dempsey UD or late kayo.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:16 PM   #113
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

This would go the distance, Dempsey would miss allot looking foolish at times and eat right hands that he could be a sucker for. The pace Dempsey sets is what would make it difficult for Toney and make it close.

Close controversial decision, Toney lands the more accurate punches, Dempsey is busier of the 2 but misses allot

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Originally Posted by Theron View Post
Dempsey didnt stand back away from his opponents and throw jabs looking to set something up he went straight in and i dont see Toney blocking all of Dempseys very fast combinations while Dempsey has his head on Toneys left arm, i think the speed of Dempsey is being underrated for this fantasy fight

And what is Toney going to throw enough hard punches to keep Dempsey away from him Toneys going to let him stand close to him and Dempseys going to destroy him with his left hook and combinatons
Toney's faster than Dempsey. Dempsey doesn't have a good record against the more skilled fighters he faced
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:39 PM   #114
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

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Jirov was a joke really. Dempsey had all time great skills, faster hands than Louis and one punch ko power. As per Arcel....."what Dempsey had you can't teach"
1. No way Dempsey had faster hands than Louis. No way.

2. Dempsey's power is MASSIVELY overrated.


As for the thread, Toney probably does well to end the fight on his feet. He simply isn't busy enough.

He has the skills and he'd make it uncomfortable in spurts, but he generally is going to be taking more than he's giving, even if they won't all be landing effectively. Dempsey will be throwing more and, by sheer volume, landing more.

I think Toney is smart enough and defensively adept enough to finish on his feet, but that's not a given...

Dempsey wins a decision.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:48 PM   #115
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
This would go the distance, Dempsey would miss allot looking foolish at times and eat right hands that he could be a sucker for. The pace Dempsey sets is what would make it difficult for Toney and make it close.

Close controversial decision, Toney lands the more accurate punches, Dempsey is busier of the 2 but misses allot



Toney's faster than Dempsey. Dempsey doesn't have a good record against the more skilled fighters he faced
Toneys faster than Dempsey at this weight... cmon give me a break, Dempsey was faster in the Willard footage and that footage was slowed down because it was filmed on a hand crank camera, and it sounds like people are saying Dempseys going to be standing back trying to box him Dempsey will get in close and crowd him and slug, Toney cant defend punches he cant see coming because theyre out of his view
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:21 PM   #116
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

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Toneys faster than Dempsey at this weight... cmon give me a break, Dempsey was faster in the Willard footage and that footage was slowed down because it was filmed on a hand crank camera,
Yes he is easily faster of hand than Dempsey. Let me explain, the jab is the fastest punch to land, followed by other straight punches. Toney throws these fast, Dempsey doesn't even have them in his artilery.

Dempsey typically throws wide punches and his handspeed is not quick, he has trouble landing against other technical boxers because they see it coming, if you watch his other fights

Dempsey just isn't particularly fast, Willard's was a human punchbag, allot of footage back then was sped up not slowed down. Against other better opponents Dempsey did not look so quick. Dempsey's feet are much quicker though but handspeed isn't great by any mean and he's very much overrated in this area, probably from fighting such slow men like Willard and Firpo

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Originally Posted by Theron View Post
it sounds like people are saying Dempseys going to be standing back trying to box him Dempsey will get in close and crowd him and slug, Toney cant defend punches he cant see coming because theyre out of his view
Dempsey didn't manage to implement this strategy against Tunney, in the Miske fight he may have lost, in the Meehan fights he lost, against Gibbons who he struggled to land against or against Brennan who landed on him at ease????

To 'crowd him and slug' he has to get into range, in trying to get into range he gets hit in the face by a straight right because he comes into range without a jab and with his hands down while trying to lead with lead left hooks.

When he gets into range he is faced with 1 of the best inside defenses and inside fighters in history.

As for Toney not being able to see what Dempsey is doing, are you actually serious?
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:48 PM   #117
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

Powerpuncher, are you ****in serious?

Dempsey didn't throw jabs?

You got to be ****in kidding me. His entire offense was predicated on lead straight lefts and lead right hands before he got inside and threw hooks and uppercuts.

And I say straight lefts, because his jab was more like a right hand, but it was quick, effective, and there was no preliminary movement.

Dempsey is easily just as fast if not faster than Toney. Toney is a great fighter, but at 190, Dempsey beats him down.

Toney doesn't have the footspeed to beat Dempsey and he's not going to beat him in the pocket.

It won't be a blow out, but Dempsey is fast, can hurt you with every punch, smart, and he has a good chin.

I don't see Toney beating Dempsey.

I think you're highly underrating Dempsey, especially in his ability to get to the target. Stationary guys are the easiest targets for Dempsey because Dempsey used his foot speed to set up his straight lefts that he consistantly landed from a distance.

He was like Pacquiao in this regard.

In fact, Tunney used a similar style to Marquez to beat him. He stayed on his toes, pivoted often, kept on his back foot, and used his footwork to prevent Dempsey from getting an opportunity to get set.

IT was no easy task though because, as I previously mentioned, it didn't take much for Dempsey to throw punches. There wasn't much prelimnary movement involved and he didn't have to get set like other punchers because he would lunge in like Pacquaio.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:59 PM   #118
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

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Originally Posted by ROACH View Post
Dempsey didn't throw jabs?

You got to be ****in kidding me. His entire offense was predicated on lead straight lefts and lead right hands before he got inside and threw hooks and uppercuts.

And I say straight lefts, because his jab was more like a right hand, but it was quick, effective, and there was no preliminary movement.
Baloney. Dempsey's offense was predicated on coming in with his lands low, looking to throw hooks. Dempsey only occasionally thew jabs. The stuff about his jab being more like a right hand is nonsense.

Quote:
Toney doesn't have the footspeed to beat Dempsey and he's not going to beat him in the pocket.
Oh yes he is. And Dempsey is vulnerable on the way in. Carpentier rocked him, Toney stops him.

Quote:
I think you're highly underrating Dempsey, especially in his ability to get to the target. Stationary guys are the easiest targets for Dempsey because Dempsey used his foot speed to set up his straight lefts that he consistantly landed from a distance.

He was like Pacquiao in this regard.
Like Pacquiao, really? Pacquiao throws a straight left from a southpaw stance. Dempsey was a hooker and not a southpaw. Dempsey's foot speed isn't going to be an issue here because he's not going to have to hunt Toney down, nor is he going to be trying to stay away from him. Dempsey bobbed and weaved with his hands low, he's open to getting hit on the way in.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:41 AM   #119
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

Dempsey was one of the best bob and Weavers ever he dosent walk forward with his hands by his side and no head movement and against Tunney he was 3 years off and rusty it wasnt the Dempsey of old
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:06 AM   #120
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

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Originally Posted by ROACH View Post
Powerpuncher, are you ****in serious?

Dempsey didn't throw jabs?

You got to be ****in kidding me. His entire offense was predicated on lead straight lefts and lead right hands before he got inside and threw hooks and uppercuts.

And I say straight lefts, because his jab was more like a right hand, but it was quick, effective, and there was no preliminary movement.
.


1. Learn what a jab is, it's not a left hook
2. Find a Dempsey fight where he throws more than 5 jabs, he doesn't
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