duran v leonard greatness comparison.

[lufcrazy]

I do think Duran edges it but it's very close

[Theron]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

I do think Duran edges it but it's very close

I agree, i think Duran has it because of what he did through the weight classes and what he did at a later age

[MAG1965]

Originally Posted by orriray59

The thing that makes the SRL victory as special as it is, is the fact that Leonard didn't lose again until he was well past it fighting at weight classes he shouldn't have been fighting at.
Nobody beat Leonard like that in his prime, or close to it.

I am not sure.. I think he didn't lose because he retired two years later and handpicked the rest of the way. He was knocked down by Lalonde and beaten up by Hearns and then beating Duran again. Had Leonard not retired in 1982 I think he would have had a loss the next two years. He was getting tired. Fact is Hagler and Hearns and Duran never had the wins Leonard did, but they were tougher mentally than Leonard was to have longer careers.

[MAG1965]

Originally Posted by lora

then you get MAG, who doesn't even know he's trolling himself.

I don't know what trolling is.I have an idea, but that doesn't seem like what I am doing. I believe what I believe very strongly about Duran and that era. My opinion never changes because I believe Duran was a little overrated in his career and Leonard underrated. Trolling? If that means discussing a topic which I will not change my mind on- I suppose I am trolling. I really don't know what that means.

[Bogotazo]

Originally Posted by lora

then you get MAG, who doesn't even know he's trolling himself.

[Boxed Ears]

Originally Posted by LittleRed

I know. Its clear that the only guy in here not being crazy is the good Doctor. Everyone else: Duran was no better than Carlos Baldomir. Accept it.

Originally Posted by lora

then you get MAG, who doesn't even know he's trolling himself.

Lora, during a brief exile from ESB, I was on another site and a Leonard/Duran thread popped up. I went in, looked around, and the only thing I could think to say was that it wasn't any fun without MAG there. Possibly no one there knew what I meant. But, no, I didn't care.

Originally Posted by MAG1965

I don't know what trolling is.I have an idea, but that doesn't seem like what I am doing. I believe what I believe very strongly about Duran and that era. My opinion never changes because I believe Duran was a little overrated in his career and Leonard underrated. Trolling? If that means discussing a topic which I will not change my mind on- I suppose I am trolling. I really don't know what that means.

You're a good man, MAG. A good, good man.

[DoctorIron]

It confuses me how much credit and hype Duran still gets.
Why is this? His quit job against Leonard was worst than Vitali and his quit job against Byrd.
It's people who forget Duran quit that tend to over rate Duran.
10 years from now Klitschko fans will pretend Ross Purrity never happened.

[DoctorIron]

Originally Posted by NWS

Duran's reign is probably the third best of the decade, behind Monzon and Napoles who fought top five opposition virtually every time out. Duran did that for around half of his defenses and the blame falls right into the lap of Carlos Eleta. However, he still beat who he needed to beat.

Talking fighter of the decade, I'd still go Duran as he also beat Marcel and Palomino outside of his LW work.

I respect you.

but let's be real.Palomino was coming off a loss to Benitez.. Duran basically took advantage of a still shell shocked Palomino and still barely manage to win.


Eleta? I'm looking at boxrec right now .. and for the life of me I can't find the name Eleta under Duran's resume?

[PhillyPhan69]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

I know I did!

I think it's clear behind the reign of Benny.

I am not necesarilly disagreeing, but if it is CLEAR behind Benny how does it stack up in comparrison to Joe Gans???

[MAG1965]

Originally Posted by Boxed Ears

Lora, during a brief exile from ESB, I was on another site and a Leonard/Duran thread popped up. I went in, looked around, and the only thing I could think to say was that it wasn't any fun without MAG there. Possibly no one there knew what I meant. But, no, I didn't care.



You're a good man, MAG. A good, good man.

What board is that which you post on? I joined another board many years ago, but lost my password and came to Eastside which has been a lot of fun for me. I forget the name of it.

I sort of get the idea that trolling is someone who sort of winds people up on a subject just for attention. But I really am not doing that. I do think Duran is great, but just not top 10. I always thought Ray was incredible. He is an odd fighter. Only 40 fights, but the guys he beat define him. Duran,Benitez,Hearns,Hagler. Those 4 guys all starting in different weight classes and with different styles and Ray beat them all. Even my favorite fighter Hearns could not do that. I have to give Ray credit.

[redrooster]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Was Duran a greater lightweight than Leonard was a welterweight?

Was Duran's victory over Leonard greater than Leonard's over Hagler?

Does Duran compare to Leonard resume wise across a whole career?

Does Duran compare to Leonard skillwise in a peak for peak comparison?

Does Duran's weight hopping compare to Leonard's

For casual fans it seems Leonard it the default choice for greater boxer. For hardcore fans it seems Duran is default choice for greater boxer.

I've seen lots of debate on the trilogy between these two but not as much debate on who should be greater and, more importantly, why.

Yes. Duran's win over 24 yr old Leonard was much better than Leonard's points win over sloppy leftover Hagler

Yees, Duran is a better lightweight than Leonard was a welter. More defenses, including rematches which was absent in Leonard fights

If anything, Leonard's career cannot compare with Duran's. Before moving up his record exceeded 60 wins against one loss. Leonard's entire career record was an average, non descript 36-3-1 and 35-4-1 by my account. Why is this question even being asked?

Peak for peak, Duran was more effective than Leonard. You can ask the contenders he laid out

Ray Leonard was just a runner

Duran's weight hopping iaccomplishments is also superior. Duran beating Leonard would be like Leonard beating Norris or Micheal Nunn

Leonard, all he has is a win over a dried up Hagler, analogous to Holmes beating same skill level Ali at the end of his career

and lalonde, that's just a joke. I would be embarassed to bring up his name were I a Leonard fan. His fans are that hard up

[Addie]

Yes. Duran's win over 24 yr old Leonard was much better than Leonard's points win over sloppy leftover Hagler

Even though beating Hagler, who was still a very good fighter in 87, is a great win and a fabulous achievement, I agree with you here.

Yees, Duran is a better lightweight than Leonard was a welter. More defenses, including rematches which was absent in Leonard fights

Duran, a better Lightweight? I don't think that's true. I've seen a few of Duran's title defenses at 135lbs and he didn't always look stellar. I also think Leonard's high points excel Duran's at their respective best weights. Saying Duran was a greater Lightweight is a different statement altogether though.

Peak for peak, Duran was more effective than Leonard. You can ask the contenders he laid out

Again, I'm not sure I agree. I'm willing to hear your reasoning though. Duran beating more contenders at his peak at 135lbs than Leonard did at 147lbs doesn't necessarily mean he was more effective, just that he was more active. Leonard, at his brilliant best, gets beat by very few Welterweights in the history of the sport. The same can be applied to Duran at Lightweight too, obviously.

Ray Leonard was just a runner

Andy Price, Pete Ranzany, Wilfred Benitez, Thomas Hearns, Dave Green, and a whole host of other contenders Ray silenced all disagree with you.

Duran's weight hopping iaccomplishments is also superior. Duran beating Leonard would be like Leonard beating Norris or Micheal Nunn

Duran's "weight hopping" was incredible. Agreed.

Leonard, all he has is a win over a dried up Hagler, analogous to Holmes beating same skill level Ali at the end of his career

Leonard has much more than that, Rooster. He outboxed and dominated Benitez at 147lbs, stopped Thomas Hearns, and made Duran quit in New Orleans. Ray also looked ridiculously good in whooping solid fighters like Ranzany and Price. Blitzed them.

[duranimal]

& Leonard looked shit & laboured against Larry U.S. Bonds. Even Dundee screamed at him at the end of the 2nd round "You do know that you have a walking stiff in front of you!"

[redrooster]

Originally Posted by duranimal

& Leonard looked shit & laboured against Larry U.S. Bonds. Even Dundee screamed at him at the end of the 2nd round "You do know that you have a walking stiff in front of you!"

Leonard never was much for chasing an opponent no matter the skill level. probably why he was so easy for Norris to master

[Addie]

Duran-Gonzalez. Horrible.