Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

[Johnstown]

Originally Posted by highguard

you wont lol



and the whole thing about compound excersies vs isolation ones

compound ones are much better for a fighter for sure
but isolation are good if you had injuries, like if your coming off a shoulder surgery etc


all that being said
a boxer who has not done weight training
and just starts stuff like deadlifts from the start
instead of isolation stuff is more prone to be injuried

like a friend of mine, who is a middleweight amatuer with about 60 fights
wanted to weights but "not bodybuilding"

so started with deadlifts and injuried his back a bit
and had to take 2 weeks off


and yes he was being coached,
just his body was used to that kind of stress


so i think some isolation work is needed for a newbie to weights
before compound ones

that is actually what they recommend..even as far as getting into body building, i know Arnie in his book suggested being good at push ups and body weight movements first.

[Bill1234]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

I'll back this.

I'm rather large and rather ripped, thanks to very knowledgeable people around me training me, and this is pretty much what we do. I haven't done a curl in camp in a decade.

And agreed on the arm wrestling. I've armwrestled Johnny Brzenk, him for fun, me for curiosity. That little SOB pulled me so fast my head spinned.

In your defense, Brzenk has dominated armwrestling at the highest level since the mid 80s...he's beaten absolutely huge and musuclar men with relative ease more times than can be counted.

Such as 0:16 of this video:



Edit: don't know why the video is not popping up.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

He destroys many a huge men in that video.

One thing I have noticed, though is that there is a very distinct difference in being pure weight lifting strong and having functional fighting strength.

For instance, I'm 5'8, and only 145 lbs. I've only had 2 people clearly establish themselves as being stronger than I was in the ring. The one was about my size, the other bigger.

About a year ago (I was 140lbs at the time) I was sparring a guy who was about 5'7, 170 lbs (solid, very little fat) pretty frequently. He out lifted me pretty clearly a few times in the gym with weights, but when we sparred I established myself as being the stronger of the two of us pretty clearly in the ring. I was able to push him and shove him all around, even when he tried his best not to let it happen.

The first time we sparred I walked him down and he looked to box me the way Cotto did vs Margarito, but I could tell it bothed him that I just kept applying pressure with little respect for his punching power or physical strength.

The second time we sparred, I could tell right from the first bell he was looking to back me up. Having a slightly longer reach, my strategy was to back him up and keep him at the end of my punches, primarily my jab, because he had shorter, more compact punches than me. I am a good infighter too, though which helped a lot of times. He tried to impose his 30lb weight advantage on me by trying to shove me back into the ropes where he would force me to exert more energy to get out. To his dismay, I overpower him and ended up walking him back into a corner and forced him to work harder than me. I found it interesting though, knowing that he would likely destroy me in armwrestling and knowing that he could definitely destroy me in a weight lifting competition, that I was able to outmuscle him in the ring pretty easily, even when he made it his goal to outmuscle me.

[Seamus]

There's a really good documentary on Brzenk. Seems like a nice, humble guy who was just blessed with a ridiculous talent at a marginal sport.

[MagnaNasakki]

Woah...That story is so much cooler now.

I had no idea. Goes to show, different kinds of power. I thought he was some local sideshow. Jesus, he's a legend. Wow.

[Flea Man]

Guy's a beast, but past his prime now. Your arm wrestling resume is pretty good. Like those 0-1 opponents of ATGs you sometimes see crop up on boxrec

[Bill1234]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

Woah...That story is so much cooler now.

I had no idea. Goes to show, different kinds of power. I thought he was some local sideshow. Jesus, he's a legend. Wow.

You armwrestled the greatest armwrestler of all time and didn't even know it.

I took an interest in Brzenk this past summer. I found it amazing that he was able to defeat men that had over 100lbs on him and arms 4-5 inches bigger of pure muscle at armwrestling and do it in such impressive fashion. I was even more amazed that he's been top dog by far in that sport since the mid 1980s and that he's basically prevented 2 generations worth of armwrestlers from being top dog and is currently preventing the 3rd from taking over.

Those who compete in armwrestling idolize Brzenk and are usually just happy to get the chance to pull with him, let alone aspire to actually win.

[Danmann]

Old time fighters came into a bout fit to fight, not for posing contests. Bodybuilding has become part of training, and it takes away form some guys. I think the way guys are training, going al out with 3 or 4 workouts a day is ridiculous, and shortens some careers. Pacquio gets away with it, and good for him But so many others like TimBradley seem to break down quicker, shortening careers.

Old timers had to fight 12 or more times a year, even if a tittle holder, they were in shape, but were not concerned with how well they looked doing a double-biceps pose, or if their six-pack showed on abs.

[Unforgiven]

Yeah, I think male vanity and the homo-erotic notion of the beautiful physique have crept into society across the board, not just boxers.

The old-timers still looked like fighters to me, at fight time certainly.
But these days more men will usually cover themselves up unless they in absolute peak condition.
Athletes get judged on the way their bodies look more.
Of course, that doesn't stop some heavyweights being fat slobs, but the average welterweight boxer has probably been caring about how his physique looks for as long as he's been boxing - or longer.

In the old days it was probably more like, yeah, you can send off for the Charles Atlas or lift barbells if you want muscles, OR you can learn to fight and make a load of money like Jack Dempsey and take whatever muscles you get in the process.
Boys wanted to be big and strong, of course, but there wasn't the same level of pre-occupation with have sharp and sexy abs or defined and developed pecs.

[MagnaNasakki]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

Yeah, I think male vanity and the homo-erotic notion of the beautiful physique have crept into society across the board, not just boxers.

The old-timers still looked like fighters to me, at fight time certainly.
But these days more men will usually cover themselves up unless they in absolute peak condition.
Athletes get judged on the way their bodies look more.
Of course, that doesn't stop some heavyweights being fat slobs, but the average welterweight boxer has probably been caring about how his physique looks for as long as he's been boxing - or longer.

In the old days it was probably more like, yeah, you can send off for the Charles Atlas or lift barbells if you want muscles, OR you can learn to fight and make a load of money like Jack Dempsey and take whatever muscles you get in the process.
Boys wanted to be big and strong, of course, but there wasn't the same level of pre-occupation with have sharp and sexy abs or defined and developed pecs.

Absolutely.

"Modern" training contains a whole lot of unnecessary shit. I was guilty of nigh-on bodybuilding at one point, and my effectiveness(Particularly my stamina) tanked. I got too big for the second most important fight of my career and had to pull a come from behind out of my ass because I was sucking wind in the third. For big biceps and cut abs. Useless. Gimme the core strength, and the rest of that time back on the road running. I've learned my lesson now.

[MadcapMaxie]

Originally Posted by highguard

all that was needed lol,

first off, if you really think that lifting weights is only for aesthetics
thats just clueless, and i hate to tell you this but doing push ups
is also resistance training,

so if weights make you still, so will push ups and pull ups

Yes all that was needed, because men back then made boxing their living not a hobby.

No, I don't think weights is only for aesthetics but exercises like arm curls have no benefit to a boxer ASIDE from having bigger or better looking biceps. They would obviously be stronger than someone who hadn't lift weights but unless boxers started armwrestling in the ring, it's not needed.

Also no push ups arn't included in resistance training they fall under calisthenics, as back then the mantra of boxing was that lifting weights would induce unnecessary muscle growth which impedes speed and stamina.

[MadcapMaxie]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

Woah...That story is so much cooler now.

I had no idea. Goes to show, different kinds of power. I thought he was some local sideshow. Jesus, he's a legend. Wow.

You armwrestled Brzenk? Damn, been a fan of his for a while I've heard his right hand is like an enourmous meaty brick. Much bigger than his left.

[Johnstown]

Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie

Yes all that was needed, because men back then made boxing their living not a hobby.

No, I don't think weights is only for aesthetics but exercises like arm curls have no benefit to a boxer ASIDE from having bigger or better looking biceps. They would obviously be stronger than someone who hadn't lift weights but unless boxers started armwrestling in the ring, it's not needed.

Also no push ups arn't included in resistance training they fall under calisthenics, as back then the mantra of boxing was that lifting weights would induce unnecessary muscle growth which impedes speed and stamina.

in my experience when i have been doing bicep work and boxing it has seemed to slow down my punches..makes me tighter....


the machinics of a punch, the biceps dont even come in much at all..m.aybe a bit on a uppercut....but not much.

[Johnstown]

actually a proper uppercut, you arent really "curlling your arm....its more legs hips (with the core) and back and shoulders

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

Absolutely.

"Modern" training contains a whole lot of unnecessary shit. I was guilty of nigh-on bodybuilding at one point, and my effectiveness(Particularly my stamina) tanked. I got too big for the second most important fight of my career and had to pull a come from behind out of my ass because I was sucking wind in the third. For big biceps and cut abs. Useless. Gimme the core strength, and the rest of that time back on the road running. I've learned my lesson now.

Yeah, psychologically, in any sport that requires physical muscular training, and in modern society, IT'S HARD NOT TO END UP USING THE MIRROR AS A GAUGE.
Being in condition we're gonna look in condition in the mirror, but that doesn't mean the better we look in the mirror the better we're gonna be in competition. At some point the two things diverge.

[MAG1965]

two things, odd stances and also when those guys had over 100 fights, and a fighter had to get used to going deep into the fight where big muscle mass would slow them down and wear them out.