Dempsey v Langford

[Vockerman]

Sam Langford, when asked how Harry Wills (whom he fought 18 times in his career) would do against Jack Dempsey, said in the June 5, 1922, Atlanta Constitution "Well if he ever fights Dempsey my money will be on the present champion. Dempsey is the greatest fighter I have ever seen. He hits twice as hard as Jim Jeffries and is as fast in the ring as James J. Corbett."

[lufcrazy]

Dempsey also said the one man he feared was old tham, they obviously respected each other highly.

[Nightcrawler]

Originally Posted by Vockerman

Sam Langford, when asked how Harry Wills (whom he fought 18 times in his career) would do against Jack Dempsey, said in the June 5, 1922, Atlanta Constitution "Well if he ever fights Dempsey my money will be on the present champion. Dempsey is the greatest fighter I have ever seen. He hits twice as hard as Jim Jeffries and is as fast in the ring as James J. Corbett."

i love the dempsey quotes but they don't mean a whole lot. and i don't buy "they knew more about boxing than we ever will". maybe but they had their biases and were limited by the era(s) they were able to witness.

dempsey may have hit harder than jeffries but no where near as hard as foreman.

dempsey was fast, but not as fast as ali. not even close.

langford gave the best analysis possible with the information available. 80+ years later, his information is woefully out of date. though he may have been right about the wills result, we'll never know

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

True gibbons being outboxed by Dempsey is a truly great victory and perhaps his greatest.

I think it's a good win considering he was coming off a 2-year lay-off.
Not sure it's his greatest though.

Originally Posted by Seamus

...and something Greb did three times.

By my count (and I might be wrong), Greb only beat Gibbons twice, once newspapers and once official decision. And he LOST twice (newspaper decision) to Gibbons before registering those wins.

The available record of Tommy Gibbons against Harry Greb :

1915 v. Greb - 10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER WIN)
1920 v. Greb - 10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER WIN)
1920 v. Greb - 10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER LOSS)
1922 v. Greb - 15 ROUNDS DECISION LOSS

Dempsey beat Gibbons after this series.
But to his credit he beat Gibbons at first time of asking, and coming off a 2-year lay-off.

[Lord Tywin]

Originally Posted by Vockerman

Sam Langford, when asked how Harry Wills (whom he fought 18 times in his career) would do against Jack Dempsey, said in the June 5, 1922, Atlanta Constitution "Well if he ever fights Dempsey my money will be on the present champion. Dempsey is the greatest fighter I have ever seen. He hits twice as hard as Jim Jeffries and is as fast in the ring as James J. Corbett."

Sam Langford also said it was nothing short of murder to match Dempsey against Willard, stating Willard would kill Dempsey.

[lufcrazy]

He hasn't beaten anyone close to being greater than gibbons.

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

He hasn't beaten anyone close to being greater than gibbons.

I think Jack Sharkey was probably a greater heavyweight than Gibbons.

The KO win over Fulton, who gave Langford the hiding of his life and was on quite a winning run of his own, might be a greater victory.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

he asked Dempsey for a fight to his face. He shouldn't have to spar or train with him that's no prerequisite lol.

No one suggested he did.

Dempsey asked him to train/ condition him for his fight with Tunney ,Greb said how much? Dempsey gave him a figure Greb said," not enough,besides I hope to fight you myself". Dempsey said," who'd pay to see that fight? "

I can't see the humour in my post,and I can't see any concrete offers of big money for Dempsey to fight Greb either.

Hope I've made it clearer , though I thought I already had.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

I think it's a good win considering he was coming off a 2-year lay-off.
Not sure it's his greatest though.



By my count (and I might be wrong), Greb only beat Gibbons twice, once newspapers and once official decision. And he LOST twice (newspaper decision) to Gibbons before registering those wins.

The available record of Tommy Gibbons against Harry Greb :

1915 v. Greb - 10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER WIN)
1920 v. Greb - 10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER WIN)
1920 v. Greb - 10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER LOSS)
1922 v. Greb - 15 ROUNDS DECISION LOSS

Dempsey beat Gibbons after this series.
But to his credit he beat Gibbons at first time of asking, and coming off a 2-year lay-off.

I don't have my Greb record in front of me so going from boxrec, your are correct. However, Greb was pretty damn green in 1915 (Gibbons slightly less so) and had in fact just lost to George Chip and lesser lights like Wenzell and Borrell and of course the KO to Joe Chip a couple years earlier. He certainly was nothing like he was 5 years later. Gibbons had already fought and beaten Miske a couple times and Borrell. He was bit more developed.

If Dempsey had fought Gibbons 4 times, especially starting in 1915, I think the odds were he would, also, have at least one loss... but going for the best opponent was not usually his M.O.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Lord Tywin

Sam Langford also said it was nothing short of murder to match Dempsey against Willard, stating Willard would kill Dempsey.

Yes, and he and Joe Jeannette had a great time saying how Jeffries was going to kill Johnson.

One wonders how the black guys who were influenced enough to bet against their own man took the result?

"Yassuh Boss ise comin."

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Seamus

I don't have my Greb record in front of me so going from boxrec, your are correct. However, Greb was pretty damn green in 1915 (Gibbons slightly less so) and had in fact just lost to George Chip and lesser lights like Wenzell and Borrell and of course the KO to Joe Chip a couple years earlier. He certainly was nothing like he was 5 years later. Gibbons had already fought and beaten Miske a couple times and Borrell. He was bit more developed.

If Dempsey had fought Gibbons 4 times, especially starting in 1915, I think the odds were he would, also, have at least one loss... but going for the best opponent was not usually his M.O.

No ,going for the best $$$$$$ was his M. O. What a sucker.

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by Seamus

I don't have my Greb record in front of me so going from boxrec, your are correct. However, Greb was pretty damn green in 1915 (Gibbons slightly less so) and had in fact just lost to George Chip and lesser lights like Wenzell and Borrell and of course the KO to Joe Chip a couple years earlier. He certainly was nothing like he was 5 years later. Gibbons had already fought and beaten Miske a couple times and Borrell. He was bit more developed.

If Dempsey had fought Gibbons 4 times, especially starting in 1915, I think the odds were he would, also, have at least one loss... but going for the best opponent was not usually his M.O.

Well, there's no harm in speculating.

All I can say for Dempsey is that he beat Gibbons, an excellent boxer, clearly, coming off a 2-year lay-off (which involved burying his head in starlet muff* as his idea of keeping 'in trim'.)
That's a fact.




* line borrowed from Seamus.

[Sardu]

Tyson Fury: You cannot stop this man. You can only hope to contain him.

[Lord Tywin]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

Well, there's no harm in speculating.

All I can say for Dempsey is that he beat Gibbons, an excellent boxer, clearly, coming off a 2-year lay-off (which involved burying his head in starlet muff* as his idea of keeping 'in trim'.)
That's a fact.




* line borrowed from Seamus.

So Dempsey gets extra points for fighting a guy who was eliminated as his top challenger in an elimination bout and beating him after staying in inactive for two years?

Nowadays people would give Dempsey ten kinds of hell for that. Instead his fans somehow twist that to be a feather in his cap.

[Lord Tywin]

Originally Posted by mcvey

No one suggested he did.

Dempsey asked him to train/ condition him for his fight with Tunney ,Greb said how much? Dempsey gave him a figure Greb said," not enough,besides I hope to fight you myself". Dempsey said," who'd pay to see that fight? "

I can't see the humour in my post,and I can't see any concrete offers of big money for Dempsey to fight Greb either.

Hope I've made it clearer , though I thought I already had.

Source please