Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

[Theron]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

This would go the distance, Dempsey would miss allot looking foolish at times and eat right hands that he could be a sucker for. The pace Dempsey sets is what would make it difficult for Toney and make it close.

Close controversial decision, Toney lands the more accurate punches, Dempsey is busier of the 2 but misses allot



Toney's faster than Dempsey. Dempsey doesn't have a good record against the more skilled fighters he faced

Toneys faster than Dempsey at this weight... cmon give me a break, Dempsey was faster in the Willard footage and that footage was slowed down because it was filmed on a hand crank camera, and it sounds like people are saying Dempseys going to be standing back trying to box him Dempsey will get in close and crowd him and slug, Toney cant defend punches he cant see coming because theyre out of his view

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by Theron

Toneys faster than Dempsey at this weight... cmon give me a break, Dempsey was faster in the Willard footage and that footage was slowed down because it was filmed on a hand crank camera,

Yes he is easily faster of hand than Dempsey. Let me explain, the jab is the fastest punch to land, followed by other straight punches. Toney throws these fast, Dempsey doesn't even have them in his artilery.

Dempsey typically throws wide punches and his handspeed is not quick, he has trouble landing against other technical boxers because they see it coming, if you watch his other fights

Dempsey just isn't particularly fast, Willard's was a human punchbag, allot of footage back then was sped up not slowed down. Against other better opponents Dempsey did not look so quick. Dempsey's feet are much quicker though but handspeed isn't great by any mean and he's very much overrated in this area, probably from fighting such slow men like Willard and Firpo

Originally Posted by Theron

it sounds like people are saying Dempseys going to be standing back trying to box him Dempsey will get in close and crowd him and slug, Toney cant defend punches he cant see coming because theyre out of his view

Dempsey didn't manage to implement this strategy against Tunney, in the Miske fight he may have lost, in the Meehan fights he lost, against Gibbons who he struggled to land against or against Brennan who landed on him at ease????

To 'crowd him and slug' he has to get into range, in trying to get into range he gets hit in the face by a straight right because he comes into range without a jab and with his hands down while trying to lead with lead left hooks.

When he gets into range he is faced with 1 of the best inside defenses and inside fighters in history.

As for Toney not being able to see what Dempsey is doing, are you actually serious?

[ROACH]

Powerpuncher, are you fuckin serious?

Dempsey didn't throw jabs?

You got to be fuckin kidding me. His entire offense was predicated on lead straight lefts and lead right hands before he got inside and threw hooks and uppercuts.

And I say straight lefts, because his jab was more like a right hand, but it was quick, effective, and there was no preliminary movement.

Dempsey is easily just as fast if not faster than Toney. Toney is a great fighter, but at 190, Dempsey beats him down.

Toney doesn't have the footspeed to beat Dempsey and he's not going to beat him in the pocket.

It won't be a blow out, but Dempsey is fast, can hurt you with every punch, smart, and he has a good chin.

I don't see Toney beating Dempsey.

I think you're highly underrating Dempsey, especially in his ability to get to the target. Stationary guys are the easiest targets for Dempsey because Dempsey used his foot speed to set up his straight lefts that he consistantly landed from a distance.

He was like Pacquiao in this regard.

In fact, Tunney used a similar style to Marquez to beat him. He stayed on his toes, pivoted often, kept on his back foot, and used his footwork to prevent Dempsey from getting an opportunity to get set.

IT was no easy task though because, as I previously mentioned, it didn't take much for Dempsey to throw punches. There wasn't much prelimnary movement involved and he didn't have to get set like other punchers because he would lunge in like Pacquaio.

[rusak]

Originally Posted by ROACH

Dempsey didn't throw jabs?

You got to be fuckin kidding me. His entire offense was predicated on lead straight lefts and lead right hands before he got inside and threw hooks and uppercuts.

And I say straight lefts, because his jab was more like a right hand, but it was quick, effective, and there was no preliminary movement.

Baloney. Dempsey's offense was predicated on coming in with his lands low, looking to throw hooks. Dempsey only occasionally thew jabs. The stuff about his jab being more like a right hand is nonsense.

Toney doesn't have the footspeed to beat Dempsey and he's not going to beat him in the pocket.

Oh yes he is. And Dempsey is vulnerable on the way in. Carpentier rocked him, Toney stops him.

I think you're highly underrating Dempsey, especially in his ability to get to the target. Stationary guys are the easiest targets for Dempsey because Dempsey used his foot speed to set up his straight lefts that he consistantly landed from a distance.

He was like Pacquiao in this regard.

Like Pacquiao, really? Pacquiao throws a straight left from a southpaw stance. Dempsey was a hooker and not a southpaw. Dempsey's foot speed isn't going to be an issue here because he's not going to have to hunt Toney down, nor is he going to be trying to stay away from him. Dempsey bobbed and weaved with his hands low, he's open to getting hit on the way in.

[Theron]

Dempsey was one of the best bob and Weavers ever he dosent walk forward with his hands by his side and no head movement and against Tunney he was 3 years off and rusty it wasnt the Dempsey of old

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by ROACH

Powerpuncher, are you fuckin serious?

Dempsey didn't throw jabs?

You got to be fuckin kidding me. His entire offense was predicated on lead straight lefts and lead right hands before he got inside and threw hooks and uppercuts.

And I say straight lefts, because his jab was more like a right hand, but it was quick, effective, and there was no preliminary movement.
.

1. Learn what a jab is, it's not a left hook
2. Find a Dempsey fight where he throws more than 5 jabs, he doesn't

[Unforgiven]

Jack Dempsey would knock that fat steroid-infested tub of lard back down to middleweight.

Now stop this silly thread.

[ROACH]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

1. Learn what a jab is, it's not a left hook
2. Find a Dempsey fight where he throws more than 5 jabs, he doesn't

Uh, what the fuck are you talking about?

Not every jab has to be thrown while you're standing stationary like an amateur.

That's not a fuckin jab, that's playing tag.

Dempsey threw a REAL jab. The type of jab that guys like Ward throw today.

[ROACH]

Originally Posted by rusak

Baloney. Dempsey's offense was predicated on coming in with his lands low, looking to throw hooks. Dempsey only occasionally thew jabs. The stuff about his jab being more like a right hand is nonsense.


Oh yes he is. And Dempsey is vulnerable on the way in. Carpentier rocked him, Toney stops him.


Like Pacquiao, really? Pacquiao throws a straight left from a southpaw stance. Dempsey was a hooker and not a southpaw. Dempsey's foot speed isn't going to be an issue here because he's not going to have to hunt Toney down, nor is he going to be trying to stay away from him. Dempsey bobbed and weaved with his hands low, he's open to getting hit on the way in.

Carpentier also fought with his hands down, but he moved like Martinez, and he gave Dempsey some problems because of his movement.

Regardless, Dempsey still caught up to him and stopped him.

What part of stationary do you not understand? Toney is a stationary target. He has great defense, but he does not use his feet to get away from his opponents.

Why wouldn't Dempsey use his footwork? Do you know anything about angles?

You can't just come straight in, and Dempsey didn't. He used feints, and angles before he came in with his attack. He didn't move in straight lines.

And why do I bring up Pacquaio, because of the punching mechanics. It has nothing to do with him being a southpaw. It's just that if anyone has the same type of explosive ability in today's game as Dempsey, it's Pacquaio.

And it has a lot to do with his punching mechanics.

Clearly, you don't understand what you're watching. You need some experience.

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by ROACH

Uh, what the fuck are you talking about?

Not every jab has to be thrown while you're standing stationary like an amateur.

That's not a fuckin jab, that's playing tag.

Dempsey threw a REAL jab. The type of jab that guys like Ward throw today.

You're wrong and no offense but I don't think you know what a jab is. You're possibly confusing a jab with a long or short hook. It has nothing to do with being stationary or not, it's a punch. I'm guessing your new to boxing or haven't seen much Dempsey, either of which is fine

Again if you want to highlight youtube footage and times you think Dempsey throws a jab, do so

Dempsey not jabbing doesn't necessarily make him a bad fighter, Frazier doesn't either, Tyson and Roy Jones at times dispense with the jab too

[janitor]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

You're wrong and no offense but I don't think you know what a jab is. You're possibly confusing a jab with a long or short hook. It has nothing to do with being stationary or not, it's a punch. I'm guessing your new to boxing or haven't seen much Dempsey, either of which is fine

Again if you want to highlight youtube footage and times you think Dempsey throws a jab, do so

Dempsey not jabbing doesn't necessarily make him a bad fighter, Frazier doesn't either, Tyson and Roy Jones at times dispense with the jab too

There is no footage on youtube of Dempsey taking a dump, but it is fair to assume that he did it.

[BUDW]

Toney is on his heels the entire fight trying to stave off Dempsey, at the very best Toney goes the distance in a losing efffort

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by janitor

There is no footage on youtube of Dempsey taking a dump, but it is fair to assume that he did it.

You'd think the hours of fight footage would give a slight indication of how he fights

[janitor]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

You'd think the hours of fight footage would give a slight indication of how he fights

What if we had a similar number and duration of Joe Louis's fights to judge him by?

We would obviously be missing out on a lot.

[Synthetic Decay]

So Roach is making a statement about something that he hasn't actually seen. At least he isn't going off on a homophobic mma tirade i guess.