ATGs who don't look impressive on film.

[Addie]

Originally Posted by orriray59

What the fuck is so amazing about Jack Johnson, anyway? Fought people ridiculously smaller than him, and if they weren't, were shot as fuck.
Maybe not his fault that men like Burns were small, but he straight ducked some fighters. When he opened up, he was sloppy, winging these wide hay-makers like nobody's business.

Spent most of the fight clinching, too. Just a generally unimpressive boxer on film.

...He was black.

[MagnaNasakki]

Originally Posted by Bill1234

Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, and Max Baer. A lot of times I see these guys favored against a lot of other ATG heavyweights and I just don't see it.

Jack Johnson has never impressed me and sometimes I think I'm watching something completely different than what others saw. He looked downright sloppy many times to me and seemed to be pretty crude considering he's considered as one of the best heavyweight ring technicians.

I can only imagine the criticism guys like Frazier, Lewis, Liston, Holmes, or any heavyweight ATG not named Dempsey, Louis, or Ali would get if they got decked by a middleweight and got up to swing incredibly sloppily and end up falling over from misbalance from throwing the punch.

People always mention how easily he beat his opposition, but honestly I think his opposition was piss poor looking on film, too and I think Dempsey, Louis, Frazier, Marciano, and litterally just about every heavyweight champ post Johnson would have walked all over the oponents too.

Jack Dempsey I find the most impressive out of those who don't really impress me on film. His tenacity is very evident and his quick headmovement coupled with his foot movement is good, but his technique is just down right awful most of the time and he telegraphed many of his punches.

I see many people favoring him over guys like Louis, Liston, Frazier, Marciano, Holmes, Lewis, Tyson, and Klitschko and I just don't see it. He's another where I can only imagine the criticism others aside from Louis, Johnson, Ali and Dempsey would have gotten had they strugged so mightily with a person as unskilled as Firpo.

Max Baer looked the worst out of all of the "great" heavyweight to me. His technique made guys like 70s Foreman and Marcos Maidana look like text book, Joe Louis esque punchers technique wise. He didn't even try to hide his lack of technique and he often reverted to blatant fouling the included strong back hands to get at his oponents.

His raw power in his right hand was evident, but I see him losing to just about every heavyweight champ barring guys like Marvin Hart, Tommy Burns, and Jess Willard.

I got to agree with all of these. The strength and athleticism is always apparent, but it is SO crude.

That's the summary of how I feel about Dempsey: The lethality and ferocity are obvious. He was a stone cold killer. I just find nothing impressive about his technical ability.

[LittleRed]

Originally Posted by Addie

...He was black.

I disagree.

[Addie]

Originally Posted by LittleRed

I disagree.

Jack Johnson wasn't black?

[orriray59]

Jack Johnson is a revolutionary character and an iconic component of history. Great fighter, too. But he just looks a bit shite to me on film.

[LittleRed]

Originally Posted by Addie

Jack Johnson wasn't black?

Define 'black'.

[orriray59]

Originally Posted by LittleRed

Define 'black'.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[LittleRed]

Sullen. Hmm...

Objection removed. Continue.

[kingfisher3]

i apreciate monzon but may never want to rewatch any of his fights.

wilde was clearly great, but from the available film its hard to know how

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by kingfisher3

i apreciate monzon but may never want to rewatch any of his fights.

wilde was clearly great, but from the available film its hard to know how

I have as complete a set of his fights that is available in the Western World and watch them incessantly.

[kingfisher3]

i doubt there's much extra footage in asia

[Manassa]

Monzon-Briscoe II - there aren't many fights I like more than that one.

[Addie]

Stanley Ketchel.

Don't get me wrong, I'm intrigued by him. I think I'll buy 'The Killings of Ketchel' next pay day to read more about the man, but having watched footage of him fighting Papke, I came away relatively unimpressed. There wasn't a lot of fighting on display.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by kingfisher3

i doubt there's much extra footage in asia

Oh, but there is. All fetish stuff, tho. And they airbrush the good bits. Not my cup of tea.

[Theron]

Originally Posted by Addie

Stanley Ketchel.

Don't get me wrong, I'm intrigued by him. I think I'll buy 'The Killings of Ketchel' next pay day to read more about the man, but having watched footage of him fighting Pake, I came away relatively unimpressed. There wasn't a lot of fighting on display.

Thats not a great display of him