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View Poll Results: who is greater?
Duran 45 62.50%
Leonard 12 16.67%
Same tier 15 20.83%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-24-2013, 12:18 AM   #181
DoctorIron
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

It confuses me how much credit and hype Duran still gets.
Why is this? His quit job against Leonard was worst than Vitali and his quit job against Byrd.
It's people who forget Duran quit that tend to over rate Duran.
10 years from now Klitschko fans will pretend Ross Purrity never happened.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:22 AM   #182
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Originally Posted by NWS View Post
Duran's reign is probably the third best of the decade, behind Monzon and Napoles who fought top five opposition virtually every time out. Duran did that for around half of his defenses and the blame falls right into the lap of Carlos Eleta. However, he still beat who he needed to beat.

Talking fighter of the decade, I'd still go Duran as he also beat Marcel and Palomino outside of his LW work.
I respect you.

but let's be real.Palomino was coming off a loss to Benitez.. Duran basically took advantage of a still shell shocked Palomino and still barely manage to win.


Eleta? I'm looking at boxrec right now .. and for the life of me I can't find the name Eleta under Duran's resume?
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:39 AM   #183
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I know I did!

I think it's clear behind the reign of Benny.
I am not necesarilly disagreeing, but if it is CLEAR behind Benny how does it stack up in comparrison to Joe Gans???
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:46 AM   #184
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post




Lora, during a brief exile from ESB, I was on another site and a Leonard/Duran thread popped up. I went in, looked around, and the only thing I could think to say was that it wasn't any fun without MAG there. Possibly no one there knew what I meant. But, no, I didn't care.



You're a good man, MAG. A good, good man.
What board is that which you post on? I joined another board many years ago, but lost my password and came to Eastside which has been a lot of fun for me. I forget the name of it.

I sort of get the idea that trolling is someone who sort of winds people up on a subject just for attention. But I really am not doing that. I do think Duran is great, but just not top 10. I always thought Ray was incredible. He is an odd fighter. Only 40 fights, but the guys he beat define him. Duran,Benitez,Hearns,Hagler. Those 4 guys all starting in different weight classes and with different styles and Ray beat them all. Even my favorite fighter Hearns could not do that. I have to give Ray credit.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:52 PM   #185
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Was Duran a greater lightweight than Leonard was a welterweight?

Was Duran's victory over Leonard greater than Leonard's over Hagler?

Does Duran compare to Leonard resume wise across a whole career?

Does Duran compare to Leonard skillwise in a peak for peak comparison?

Does Duran's weight hopping compare to Leonard's

For casual fans it seems Leonard it the default choice for greater boxer. For hardcore fans it seems Duran is default choice for greater boxer.

I've seen lots of debate on the trilogy between these two but not as much debate on who should be greater and, more importantly, why.
Yes. Duran's win over 24 yr old Leonard was much better than Leonard's points win over sloppy leftover Hagler

Yees, Duran is a better lightweight than Leonard was a welter. More defenses, including rematches which was absent in Leonard fights

If anything, Leonard's career cannot compare with Duran's. Before moving up his record exceeded 60 wins against one loss. Leonard's entire career record was an average, non descript 36-3-1 and 35-4-1 by my account. Why is this question even being asked?

Peak for peak, Duran was more effective than Leonard. You can ask the contenders he laid out

Ray Leonard was just a runner

Duran's weight hopping iaccomplishments is also superior. Duran beating Leonard would be like Leonard beating Norris or Micheal Nunn

Leonard, all he has is a win over a dried up Hagler, analogous to Holmes beating same skill level Ali at the end of his career

and lalonde, that's just a joke. I would be embarassed to bring up his name were I a Leonard fan. His fans are that hard up
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:06 PM   #186
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Yes. Duran's win over 24 yr old Leonard was much better than Leonard's points win over sloppy leftover Hagler
Even though beating Hagler, who was still a very good fighter in 87, is a great win and a fabulous achievement, I agree with you here.

Quote:
Yees, Duran is a better lightweight than Leonard was a welter. More defenses, including rematches which was absent in Leonard fights
Duran, a better Lightweight? I don't think that's true. I've seen a few of Duran's title defenses at 135lbs and he didn't always look stellar. I also think Leonard's high points excel Duran's at their respective best weights. Saying Duran was a greater Lightweight is a different statement altogether though.

Quote:
Peak for peak, Duran was more effective than Leonard. You can ask the contenders he laid out
Again, I'm not sure I agree. I'm willing to hear your reasoning though. Duran beating more contenders at his peak at 135lbs than Leonard did at 147lbs doesn't necessarily mean he was more effective, just that he was more active. Leonard, at his brilliant best, gets beat by very few Welterweights in the history of the sport. The same can be applied to Duran at Lightweight too, obviously.

Quote:
Ray Leonard was just a runner
Andy Price, Pete Ranzany, Wilfred Benitez, Thomas Hearns, Dave Green, and a whole host of other contenders Ray silenced all disagree with you.

Quote:
Duran's weight hopping iaccomplishments is also superior. Duran beating Leonard would be like Leonard beating Norris or Micheal Nunn
Duran's "weight hopping" was incredible. Agreed.

Quote:
Leonard, all he has is a win over a dried up Hagler, analogous to Holmes beating same skill level Ali at the end of his career
Leonard has much more than that, Rooster. He outboxed and dominated Benitez at 147lbs, stopped Thomas Hearns, and made Duran quit in New Orleans. Ray also looked ridiculously good in whooping solid fighters like Ranzany and Price. Blitzed them.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:19 PM   #187
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

& Leonard looked shit & laboured against Larry U.S. Bonds. Even Dundee screamed at him at the end of the 2nd round "You do know that you have a walking stiff in front of you!"
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:33 PM   #188
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Originally Posted by duranimal View Post
& Leonard looked shit & laboured against Larry U.S. Bonds. Even Dundee screamed at him at the end of the 2nd round "You do know that you have a walking stiff in front of you!"


Leonard never was much for chasing an opponent no matter the skill level. probably why he was so easy for Norris to master
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:45 AM   #189
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Duran-Gonzalez. Horrible.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:47 AM   #190
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Leonard was more fun to watch for me, but boxing-wise unquestionably Duran is higher
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:24 PM   #191
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

saw this kicking around on Twitter.

fella states that he has one more part to issue

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

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[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

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Old 01-26-2013, 12:55 PM   #192
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

damn.

type in boxing socialist
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:04 PM   #193
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69 View Post
I am not necesarilly disagreeing, but if it is CLEAR behind Benny how does it stack up in comparrison to Joe Gans???
I think Gans also has a reign clearly behind Benny. I think Benny clearly has the beat reign in lightweight history. I honestly don't think it's even debatable.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:32 PM   #194
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I think Gans also has a reign clearly behind Benny. I think Benny clearly has the beat reign in lightweight history. I honestly don't think it's even debatable.
I am sorry, I meant if Duran is clear behind Leonard (Benny) how does DURAN (not Benny) stack up to Gans. I agree that Benny has it...at least by my rating.
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:02 PM   #195
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Default Re: duran v leonard greatness comparison.

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Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69 View Post
I am sorry, I meant if Duran is clear behind Leonard (Benny) how does DURAN (not Benny) stack up to Gans. I agree that Benny has it...at least by my rating.
About even I suppose. Not much between them.
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