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Old 01-24-2013, 08:48 PM   #91
Bill1234
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Big muscles DO slow you down and gas you out.

Seriously. I noticed I had some DEFINITE might at 270, but my god, hauling that frame around and launching triphammer punches with it got exhausting fast.

I could box 50 rounds in a day in my 230 pounds frame. 7 years and 40 pounds later, I got the 4, and then I was in trouble. Not tired, not winded, IN TROUBLE. I spent the entire fight resting, trying to summon the energy to go for broke near the end.

Fighters; Don't put yourself in that situation.
Did you manage to do better against Foreman when trying to stand your ground at the higher weight?
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:50 PM   #92
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Did you manage to do better against Foreman when trying to stand your ground at the higher weight?
George never got Magna the musclebound blimp. I think that's a good thing, I'm quite taken with my ability to form a sentence.

George was a tank, though. You just bounced off that guy. I don't know if ANY kind of strong would have been strong enough. I'd have probably been better in the clinch and hit a little harder, though. Might have kept him off a bit more. For awhile. THen it would hurt when I was tired, a lot.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:00 PM   #93
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Yes all that was needed, because men back then made boxing their living not a hobby.

No, I don't think weights is only for aesthetics but exercises like arm curls have no benefit to a boxer ASIDE from having bigger or better looking biceps. They would obviously be stronger than someone who hadn't lift weights but unless boxers started armwrestling in the ring, it's not needed.

Also no push ups arn't included in resistance training they fall under calisthenics, as back then the mantra of boxing was that lifting weights would induce unnecessary muscle growth which impedes speed and stamina.

what does the living vs hobby thing have to do with
lifting weights or not,

and if they said unnecessary muscle growth impedes speed etc
were they too dumb too see to much running
might make you weaker but will so ruin your career
by destroying your knees and ankles
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:05 PM   #94
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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two things, odd stances and also when those guys had over 100 fights, and a fighter had to get used to going deep into the fight where big muscle mass would slow them down and wear them out.

you have a good point but the reverse
can be said, if you were strong enough to finish things
early, you might not need to always go into deep water

again everyone seems to always bring up
weights can make you stiff or affect your stamina,
if weights do this
then why did they do stuff like pull ups,
same negative affects are possible

and going deep well
if you cant walk thanks to a ton running
good luck boxing
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:12 PM   #95
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

let me state something

weight training is great for boxing or any other combat sport,
because being powerful is a bonus in any type of combat

training like a bodybuilder with weights 5 times a week
may make you stiff and slow etc

so what
lets look at the ****ing holy grail RUNNING,

running will improve your endurance
and endurance is good for boxing or any other combat sport

but if you train run all the time like a long distance runner
you will be lanky,probably weak with no muscles

and most likely have a lot of knee and ankle problems


both are good for you in proportion

but to all the haters or weight training

even your hated enemy the bodybuilder
will rag doll and ruin a
kenyan long distance runner in boxing or any other combat sport

and no his bad stamia wont come into play because it will last 2 seconds
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:17 PM   #96
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by highguard View Post
what does the living vs hobby thing have to do with
lifting weights or not,

and if they said unnecessary muscle growth impedes speed etc
were they too dumb too see to much running
might make you weaker but will so ruin your career
by destroying your knees and ankles
Because they LIVED boxing, and like I said would only do what was necessary for a boxer. Why would a golfer need to improve his 100 meter sprint when it doesn't equate to anything useful in his field. Majority of boxers back then also had a 9-5 there was no time for something like lifting weights when it wouldn't help them in any way.

I don't understand how running would make one weaker, particularly when conditioning is of the up most importance in boxing especially back then when 15 rounders were a common thing.

Also I've never heard of any boxer having ruined his career due to running, saying the old timers were dumb for running because they could ruin their career due to knee and ankle injuries is like saying the old timers were stupid for hitting a heavy bag because it damages your hands, wrist and elbow joints.

PS. You seemed to have a go at another poster on here because you claimed he had never been to a boxing gym yet if you actually had been you'd know any boxing coach would tell you that running is very important while lifting weights is not.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:48 PM   #97
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by highguard View Post
let me state something

weight training is great for boxing or any other combat sport,
because being powerful is a bonus in any type of combat

training like a bodybuilder with weights 5 times a week
may make you stiff and slow etc

so what
lets look at the ****ing holy grail RUNNING,

running will improve your endurance
and endurance is good for boxing or any other combat sport

but if you train run all the time like a long distance runner
you will be lanky,probably weak with no muscles

and most likely have a lot of knee and ankle problems


both are good for you in proportion

but to all the haters or weight training

even your hated enemy the bodybuilder
will rag doll and ruin a
kenyan long distance runner in boxing or any other combat sport

and no his bad stamia wont come into play because it will last 2 seconds
I disagree utterly.

I've met bodybuilders who could fight, and I've met more who can't. I've watched a skinny 150 pound South African amateur destroy a 220 pound man in 2 rounds.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but that last part is just false. No man without training can end a boxing match in 2 seconds, because that kind of power has little to do with muscle.

I'm a huge advocate of universal training in preparation for a fight. Too much weightlifting ruins a practical body. I don't honestly think I've ever seen too much cardio ruin a boxer in my entire career, but you definitely want to space it out, and train in a lot of different ways.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:19 PM   #98
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
George never got Magna the musclebound blimp. I think that's a good thing, I'm quite taken with my ability to form a sentence.

George was a tank, though. You just bounced off that guy. I don't know if ANY kind of strong would have been strong enough. I'd have probably been better in the clinch and hit a little harder, though. Might have kept him off a bit more. For awhile. THen it would hurt when I was tired, a lot.
Yeah, Foreman is the only fighter that I've never, not even once, seen outmuscled by anyone.

Would you say that he was physically stronger than Lewis and Wlad, who are also known to be very, very strong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by highguard View Post
you have a good point but the reverse
can be said, if you were strong enough to finish things
early, you might not need to always go into deep water

again everyone seems to always bring up
weights can make you stiff or affect your stamina,
if weights do this
then why did they do stuff like pull ups,
same negative affects are possible

and going deep well
if you cant walk thanks to a ton running
good luck boxing
Well, history shows that the fighters who ran and didn't lift weights did much better than the fighters who lifted weights and didn't put in their road work.

Lifting a ton of weights and becoming big and strong doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be punching harder or knocking people out quicker, it just means you're putting on weight and muscle that most likely isn't needed.

As with everything, different forms of training need to be done in moderation.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:25 AM   #99
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
I disagree utterly.

I've met bodybuilders who could fight, and I've met more who can't. I've watched a skinny 150 pound South African amateur destroy a 220 pound man in 2 rounds.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but that last part is just false. No man without training can end a boxing match in 2 seconds, because that kind of power has little to do with muscle.

I'm a huge advocate of universal training in preparation for a fight. Too much weightlifting ruins a practical body. I don't honestly think I've ever seen too much cardio ruin a boxer in my entire career, but you definitely want to space it out, and train in a lot of different ways.

when i say 2 secounds, i meant really short lol
but i think you get my point


ofcourse too much cardio wont ruin a career,
but i was talking specifically running....

it is a fact that it does severe damage over time to knees and ankles
espically if your a larger person,


also depends on the type of weight training,
a lot of bodybuilding style, yes can you slow you etc
but on the other hand its a wonderful
tool coming off an injury to re-build your body
or a body part
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:30 AM   #100
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Yeah, Foreman is the only fighter that I've never, not even once, seen outmuscled by anyone.

Would you say that he was physically stronger than Lewis and Wlad, who are also known to be very, very strong?



Well, history shows that the fighters who ran and didn't lift weights did much better than the fighters who lifted weights and didn't put in their road work.

Lifting a ton of weights and becoming big and strong doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be punching harder or knocking people out quicker, it just means you're putting on weight and muscle that most likely isn't needed.

As with everything, different forms of training need to be done in moderation.

to some degree i agree with you, but there is an interesting thing
"road work" in some circles is going out style
like a lot of mma guys perfer circut training or spirts
because tridional road work, may not have enough of an explosive element in it


i am not saying i agree or disagree with this but more and more
people do non long distance running for their cardio


you have a good point about the weight and muscle
but on other hand, weight training is awesome tool
to prevent injuries
while running causes them
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:35 AM   #101
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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good medical video on injuries caused by running
to hip,knee,ankle,foot etc
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:55 AM   #102
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
I think it has a lot to do with the emphasis on running in training. Look at the Chris Byrd vs Shane George fight to see how some of the modern heavyweights would look if they trained the way the earlier fighters did. Whether this is an advantage or not, i guess the jury is still out, as Byrd never went too well in that fight (although age might have also been a factor).
Bingo. Running can kill your size. What I mean but that is some of the muscle density. We're not talking 3-5 miles but the 5-15 miles daily types with fewer and bigger concentrated meals, rather than many more smaller sized meals & nutritional benefits most athletes get today.

Byrd failed because he dropped too much weight from his stabilized fighting days. You can't just trim yourself down like that without hurting your resistance or stamina.

I think this is a particular reason why many boxers had smaller thigh measurements back in the day. They had strong, very conditioned legs. But their legs were for the long haul of a fight, and not quite as big as some fighters legs are nowadays. Longer distance running can do that to you. But then now that I think about it there are many boxers that appear rather top-tall, especially some of the HWs. This may be more because of a dismissal of leg-based conditioning (Interval training or distance) in favor of alternatives like swimming. I'm not sure. Genetics plays a part, naturally.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:06 AM   #103
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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There's a really good documentary on Brzenk. Seems like a nice, humble guy who was just blessed with a ridiculous talent at a marginal sport.
Yep it's pretty good

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Woah...That story is so much cooler now.

I had no idea. Goes to show, different kinds of power. I thought he was some local sideshow. Jesus, he's a legend. Wow.
He's often refereed to as the GOAT. It's not undisputed, though, much like SRR at #1 isn't.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:12 AM   #104
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Yep it's pretty good



He's often refereed to as the GOAT. It's not undisputed, though, much like SRR at #1 isn't.
I don't see how it couldn't be undisputed...he's lost a whopping 1 major match, and he was injured going into that match.

He's beaten that ****y young guy in the documentary several times and as far as I know is still top dog in that sport, which would make him top dog for nearly 30 years now.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:20 AM   #105
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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I don't see how it couldn't be undisputed...he's lost a whopping 1 major match, and he was injured going into that match.

He's beaten that ****y young guy in the documentary several times and as far as I know is still top dog in that sport, which would make him top dog for nearly 30 years now.
Well he also lost 6-0 to Devon Larratt but was well past his best. I think his victory over Cyplenkov only a year or 2 ago cements his place as the GOAT...even tho Cyplenkov is left handed.
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