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Old 01-24-2013, 01:19 AM   #46
Haggis McJackass
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Default Re: Should there be manditory contenders in MMA?

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There's some intersting chat going on between Thracian and a boxing promoter in the training forum that kinda relates to this thread. Some intersting business nuts and bolts stuff:

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By the way, I was going to respond to your post earlier, but didn't want to have five posts in a row on the thread.

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Old 01-24-2013, 01:30 AM   #47
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Default Re: Should there be manditory contenders in MMA?

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By the way, I was going to respond to your post earlier, but didn't want to have five posts in a row on the thread.

No worries mate.
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:29 AM   #48
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Default Re: Should there be manditory contenders in MMA?

This whole no number one contender or mandatory challenger is a lot like The Stanley Cup in the 1800's when teams would travel to play the Champion, if they had the money. A team travelled for 4 months I believe from Dawson City, Yukon, to play the Champions, The Ottawa Silver Seven. They didnt beat anyone to get the series, they just contacted Ottawa team, and voila, a shot at the title. If they had won, they would have held the Cup forever, as who was going to travel to The Yukon by Dog Sled???

But since anyone that generates the money can fight for The UFC strap, it is the same as the primitive incantation of the Hockey Championships and The Stanley Cup. At least until hockey became a respectable sport with legitimate champions, and properly contested championship series'. I wonder if The UFC will evolve one day like Hockey did.
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:34 AM   #49
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Default Re: Should there be manditory contenders in MMA?

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If you make yourself into the guy that fans want to see in a title fight, you'll get your shot.

If you step up when the company needs someone to step up, you'll reap the rewards. Without offering to fight Jones on eight days' notice, I really doubt that Chael would have gotten this shot.

But when the UFC President has a title fight fall apart at the last minute, and he calls all the contenders and says "Do you want a title shot next week? We need somebody to take the fight or the card is going to collapse", well, why should the guys who say "No, I don't want a title shot, here is my list of conditions to fight for the belt" be rewarded over the guy who says "I'll fight anyone at any time. What can I do to help promote the fight?"


So kind of like how an ass kisser at work will get a promotion over a more qualified applicant or employee? I hate ass kisser and brown nosers at work. I really dont want to see those guys in my sports.
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:45 AM   #50
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Default Re: Should there be manditory contenders in MMA?

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So kind of like how an ass kisser at work will get a promotion over a more qualified applicant or employee? I hate ass kisser and brown nosers at work. I really dont want to see those guys in my sports.
Who is "more qualified"?

Nobody wanted to see Jon Fitch dry-humping everybody who was put in the cage with him. Nobody got excited to see him fight, or liked the idea of him wearing the belt.

But he kept winning, turned himself into the last man standing, and got his shot.

If he had exciting fights, if he was more willing to put himself out there and generate interest, he would have gotten his shot sooner. But he's a nice guy, a somewhat bland personality, with a boring fighting style. He's always going to be leapfrogged by an exciting fighter who generates interest and buzz, and fair enough.

Besides, "mandatory contenders" are all subjective. There are people here who will tell you that Hendo is the rightful next challenger for Jones. Ignoring the fact that the guy hasn't even fought since 2011. And when he did it was a razor-close decision against a guy who has since been in a back-and-forth war with Brandon Vera of all people, and was also easily steamrolled by Gustafsson. And Henderson has also been injured during that time. How is that deserving of a title shot in March/April 2013?

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Old 01-24-2013, 02:52 AM   #51
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Default Re: Should there be manditory contenders in MMA?

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This whole no number one contender or mandatory challenger is a lot like The Stanley Cup in the 1800's when teams would travel to play the Champion, if they had the money. A team travelled for 4 months I believe from Dawson City, Yukon, to play the Champions, The Ottawa Silver Seven. They didnt beat anyone to get the series, they just contacted Ottawa team, and voila, a shot at the title. If they had won, they would have held the Cup forever, as who was going to travel to The Yukon by Dog Sled???

But since anyone that generates the money can fight for The UFC strap, it is the same as the primitive incantation of the Hockey Championships and The Stanley Cup. At least until hockey became a respectable sport with legitimate champions, and properly contested championship series'. I wonder if The UFC will evolve one day like Hockey did.
Who organizes the rankings?

The UFC, or someone else?

If it's the UFC, what really changes?

If it's someone else, what right do they have to impose their opinions and rules on a private company?

And what happens when someone gets injured and a fight has to be made at late notice?

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Old 01-24-2013, 02:55 AM   #52
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Default Re: Should there be manditory contenders in MMA?

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So kind of like how an ass kisser at work will get a promotion over a more qualified applicant or employee? I hate ass kisser and brown nosers at work. I really dont want to see those guys in my sports.
Kiss Dana's ass all you want, if you aren't selling tickets you aren't getting jumped ahead in the queue.

And Diaz is (for the second time) scheduled to fight GSP. And he's coming off a loss too. How much of an ass-kisser is Nick Diaz?

But fans wanted to see this fight. They've been screaming for GSP to fight Diaz for a couple of years now. The level of fan interest is a LOT higher for Diaz than it is for Hendricks. That makes Diaz the most qualified WW applicant.

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Old 01-24-2013, 03:24 AM   #53
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Default Re: Should there be manditory contenders in MMA?

I think it's more faceted than we are giving it credit for.

We are talking about this in extremes. The reality is, every situation is going to be different, and every fighter is a little different as well.

A new hungry guy, or an old skilled guy with nothing to lose are going to be more than willing to take fights at the last minute.

Guys that have a lot to lose are the sort that might get the call, but are unprepared for a title shot. They don't want to blow their shot at the champ when they are unprepared because they may not get another shot. Why blow your wad against the champ unless you are fully prepared and trained for him?

In cases where a contender goes down, and the 2,3 or 4 guy aren't down to fight, then you should pick the guy who will sell the most tickets.

But, you should have something like this rule, or some other rule available to the public so they can scrutinize it and understand it.

Have a rule, or philosophy go guide you, rather than the seat of your pants.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:25 AM   #54
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Default Re: Should there be manditory contenders in MMA?

I do agree that the UFC way is more fan pleasing. To bring up another hockey analogy, I remember the Devils in the 90's. Incredibly boring style of hockey, but they were the Champs. I didnt really care much to watch them, so I missed a lot of Cup games. If the Leafs had been there, I wouldnt have moved. If The Leafs win The Cup, I bet television records across Canada will be broken. More people would watch game 7 of The Leafs than watched the Moon Landing. But the Leafs usually suck and don't even make the playoffs. So I'd love to see them there, but they would not be a legitimate threat, challenge, or even challenger.

I guess I would prefer to see the athletes earn their shots in the Octagon, in the ring, on the ice, then behind the microphone, so to speak.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:28 PM   #55
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Default Re: Should there be manditory contenders in MMA?

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It doesn't need such a thing. The mandatory contender rule was devised for boxing in an attempt to force increasingly elusive(read: cowardly) boxers to fight the best contenders around.
In the UFC because UFC fighters do not possess the privilege of being so evasive, the UFC often makes the best fights that everyone wants to see.
How would one 'earn' a shot without a ranking system?

I think brackets are great, maybe a grand prix? There should be intelligible ways people can follow fights. I even like it when Dana White has guys fight off for a shot at the champ.. Watching Cain go through Bigfoot, then JDS was incredible T.V. and incredible fighting.

I think that some sort of rational system that people can follow, will get more people to follow MMA

It makes things interesting, chance is a funny thing.
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:20 PM   #56
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Default Re: Should there be manditory contenders in MMA?

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How would one 'earn' a shot without a ranking system?

I think brackets are great, maybe a grand prix? There should be intelligible ways people can follow fights. I even like it when Dana White has guys fight off for a shot at the champ.. Watching Cain go through Bigfoot, then JDS was incredible T.V. and incredible fighting.

I think that some sort of rational system that people can follow, will get more people to follow MMA

It makes things interesting, chance is a funny thing.
158 GSP vs Diaz will have a WW tournament

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Old 01-24-2013, 05:44 PM   #57
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Default Re: Should there be manditory contenders in MMA?

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Sonnen looked drained as **** his last two MW outings, and apparently is a natural 205 pounder at this point in his career.

And he's fearless in the cage. He'll press the fight and get in Jones' face and try to impose his will and make something happen. Which the majority of Jones' recent opponents haven't done - they've hung back and waited to get slaughtered.

Not to say that Sonnen will win, but there's nobody left who is gong to come close to being an even-money matchup at this point. Except for Anderson.

Sonnen will have a go and won't die wondering. I'll give him that much.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:14 PM   #58
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Default Re: Should there be manditory contenders in MMA?

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Do you remember that Chael and Hendo are in the same camp ?

Are you brain not working well enough to understand that Chael got a fight on twitter with Jones on purpose to get the fight ?

Can't you understand it's a win/win situation for him and there is absolutely props to give to that retard to have accepted a fight he didn't have anything to lose in ?
Yes, no and no.... You went wrong in trying to figure Chael Sonnen out.


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I'm not catty with you, for the past 2 weeks you've been ranting on bat shit crazy stuff Rush Limbaugh level madness. You kept bringing Silva P4P status in a GSP ATG thread....you tried to make a case for Silva resume being better then Fedor and GSP....I'm not the one saying crazy shit, you are !


Ask me if I ****in care about the buzz between fighter X and Y if X hasn't done shit in the division of Y for several years. Ask me if I care about anything MMA drama related. Just ask me once if I care about any of that shit and maybe you will finally understand that I see MMA as a sport and not entertainment.

I have better thing to do then watching DW milking all of the stupid retard creaming in there pants for that fight.

How can anyone be interested in watching that joke of a fight except for watching Sonnen get KTFO or subb once again is beyond me....
I brought up Anderson Silva once, and it was followed by a couple of pages of Fedor gifs and video. I didn't bring Anderson Silva into the discussion, it's a p4p discussion, and his name was in the OP.

I still don't think you understand the fight game, and it's nothing I can fix. There is no #1 Contender at LHW, and if you think there is I'd like to see you draw up a list because Mixed Martial Arts doesn't operate that way.... The fans decide who is the best, who has earned and who deserves what.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:50 AM   #59
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Default Re: Should there be manditory contenders in MMA?

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Yes, no and no.... You went wrong in trying to figure Chael Sonnen out.

Because you know better perhaps ??
Because Sonnen is not an opportunistic cunt ??

Quote:
I brought up Anderson Silva once, and it was followed by a couple of pages of Fedor gifs and video. I didn't bring Anderson Silva into the discussion, it's a p4p discussion, and his name was in the OP.
You are thicker then a bechamel sauce...

GSP: Is he the second greatest MMA fight ever?

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Please enlighten me, were does it mention P4P ?
Because like the OP said in the first post of that thread, since Fedor is #1 and now retired, it has to be a P4P discussion right ?

Quote:
I still don't think you understand the fight game, and it's nothing I can fix. There is no #1 Contender at LHW, and if you think there is I'd like to see you draw up a list because Mixed Martial Arts doesn't operate that way.... The fans decide who is the best, who has earned and who deserves what.
So because Hendo hurt himself, ****ed it up big time by not telling the UFC about it, a guy that has been fighting at 185 for years should get a title shot at 205 free because the champion already beat most of the actual contender.

And just BTW, since Gustafson just beat Shogun, I don't see why they could'nt offer the fight to him....ohh yeah, that right, Sonnen is getting the title shot because he can tweet and talk...
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:36 AM   #60
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Default Re: Should there be manditory contenders in MMA?

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Kiss Dana's ass all you want, if you aren't selling tickets you aren't getting jumped ahead in the queue.

And Diaz is (for the second time) scheduled to fight GSP. And he's coming off a loss too. How much of an ass-kisser is Nick Diaz?

But fans wanted to see this fight. They've been screaming for GSP to fight Diaz for a couple of years now. The level of fan interest is a LOT higher for Diaz than it is for Hendricks. That makes Diaz the most qualified WW applicant.

Sonnen is the ass kisser in that example. Diaz could easily be considered a voluntary defense. GSP just fought his mandatory in Condit, now he can choose. Still can have the fan fights, but make sure there is at least 1 mandatory a year. Silva cant keep fighting the likes of Bonnar and Sonnen without facing who should be the real top challenger. And the top contender doesnt even necessarily have to be the best fighter. I dont consider David Haye the top contender, but I consider him the best fighter not named Wlad
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