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Old 01-25-2013, 03:42 AM   #106
Bill1234
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Well he also lost 6-0 to Devon Larratt but was well past his best. I think his victory over Cyplenkov only a year or 2 ago cements his place as the GOAT...even tho Cyplenkov is left handed.
Brzenk also beat Larratt at another point, though. Granted, I know little about armwrestling and its history, but imagining a person better than Brzenk is hard to imagine given he's now in his 4th decade at the top of the sport and has defeated everyone there is to face, including a 660lb person.

BORKED

For those who don't know who Cyplenkov is...he's a huge steroided up freak.

BORKED

Cyplenkov:



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Old 01-25-2013, 04:16 AM   #107
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

To me, man, nothing simulates a distance fight across 12 like running a long ass way, uphill as much as possible.

I know the alternatives are catching on, and as I've aged I use them more and more, but running should never go out of style. Strengthening your legs that way just works, and always has.

I say do everything. Nothing, and I mean nothing, is harder on a man than a full championship distance against a train killer. The stamina drain is unreal. Be strong in every area, do everything you can. Can't hurt, just have a smart sage to guide you towards progress and away from injury.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:25 AM   #108
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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To me, man, nothing simulates a distance fight across 12 like running a long ass way, uphill as much as possible.

I know the alternatives are catching on, and as I've aged I use them more and more, but running should never go out of style. Strengthening your legs that way just works, and always has.

I say do everything. Nothing, and I mean nothing, is harder on a man than a full championship distance against a train killer. The stamina drain is unreal. Be strong in every area, do everything you can. Can't hurt, just have a smart sage to guide you towards progress and away from injury.
Wise words.

I laugh when 'modern training' zealots will say "6 mile runs will do nothing for your stamina, you have to do intervals, and 400m and 800m repetitions "

I always say there's more than one way to skin a cat.
Or, as you say, do a bit of both and your ass is covered.

Also, the proof is in the pudding.
No one can tell me Battling Nelson et al. weren't as fit for purpose and as thoroughly conditioned as their modern counterparts, slugging each other in 45 round fights outdoors under the sun. Exhibit A, case closed.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:20 AM   #109
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Wise words.

I laugh when 'modern training' zealots will say "6 mile runs will do nothing for your stamina, you have to do intervals, and 400m and 800m repetitions "

I always say there's more than one way to skin a cat.
Or, as you say, do a bit of both and your ass is covered.

Also, the proof is in the pudding.
No one can tell me Battling Nelson et al. weren't as fit for purpose and as thoroughly conditioned as their modern counterparts, slugging each other in 45 round fights outdoors under the sun. Exhibit A, case closed.
I think that distance running is very good for building up your bodies over all conditioning, especially when one begins training, and some distance runs should still be done throughout the career.

having said that, i do think constant distance running can in fact start to take more of a toll on the body than it should...

having said all that....speed work isn't a new invention. I remember reading a article in some body building mag years ago by Lee Haney about how his strength and conditioning work with Holyfield, in round about ways he talked about how the old times didn't know shit with only doing long runs, and how he has Holy do very slow jogs for a few hundred yards, than sprint for a hundred or so years. Interval training...he threw in some scientific stuff (maybe Lee had help with the article).

Than, a few years ago, I saw this
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OOD EXERCISES FOR CONDITIONING THE BODY ARE ROADWORK, ROPE-SKIPPING, AND CALISTHENICS. ROADWORK means running on the road. Running strengthens the legs and develops stamina. It also takes off weight if you wear warm, heavy garments while running. Regardless of other apparel, you must wear shoes that have sturdy soles and tops that come up over your ankles. Also, you should wear heavy socks to prevent your feet from becoming blistered.
If you are soft and poorly conditioned when you begin training, you should harden yourself by hiking over rough ground for at least two weeks before attempting any running. When you do begin to run, take it easy at first. Limit yourself to dog-trot jogs of about a half-mile each morning for seven days. Then, gradually increase the distance until you are jogging about two miles.
After you've become accustomed to roadwork and your feet have hardened, mix up your runs by sprinting for 100 yards, then jogging, then shadow-boxing for a few seconds, then jogging, then sprinting, etc. Nearly all professional fighters do their roadwork early in the morning. Do yours whenever you get the chance. Naturally, you'll take a shower when you come in from your spin. Professionals do from three to ten miles on the road.
Championship Fighting/Jack Dempsey
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:36 AM   #110
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Oh yeah, fighters have always done 'interval' work, or wind sprints, hill running etc. Training hard and for fitness is actually quite straight-forward and athletes figured most of it out decades ago, perhaps millennia ago ! Trial and error, common sense and instinct.

I think in 'the information age' and with everything now a body of science, some people anyone who lived 50 years ago couldn't have had a clue about anything.
People might use words like 'plyometrics' and shit now, doesn't mean the method didn't exist a long time before the word was coined and some geeks wrote a book on it.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:39 AM   #111
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Oh yeah, fighters have always done 'interval' work, or wind sprints, hill running etc. Training hard and for fitness is actually quite straight-forward and athletes figured most of it out decades ago, perhaps millennia ago ! Trial and error, common sense and instinct.

I think in 'the information age' and with everything now a body of science, some people anyone who lived 50 years ago couldn't have had a clue about anything.
People might use words like 'plyometrics' and shit now, doesn't mean the method didn't exist a long time before the word was coined and some geeks wrote a book on it.
Yeah, its basically just that they added more fancy terms to things...
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:48 PM   #112
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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I don't see how it couldn't be undisputed...he's lost a whopping 1 major match, and he was injured going into that match.

He's beaten that ****y young guy in the documentary several times and as far as I know is still top dog in that sport, which would make him top dog for nearly 30 years now.
I agree in terms of achievements & longevity. Certainly at least in P4P terms. But what's that huge Russian that beat him and bobsleds now? I know some consider him the best. I'm not familiar enough with the sport to really argue one way or another. I know John has the greatest achievements but never toppled this opponent.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:57 PM   #113
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
To me, man, nothing simulates a distance fight across 12 like running a long ass way, uphill as much as possible.

I know the alternatives are catching on, and as I've aged I use them more and more, but running should never go out of style. Strengthening your legs that way just works, and always has.

I say do everything. Nothing, and I mean nothing, is harder on a man than a full championship distance against a train killer. The stamina drain is unreal. Be strong in every area, do everything you can. Can't hurt, just have a smart sage to guide you towards progress and away from injury.
Marciano would attest to this. I can't find the footage but he said running uphill is what kept your legs/conditioning in a long and grueling fight.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:38 PM   #114
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
To me, man, nothing simulates a distance fight across 12 like running a long ass way, uphill as much as possible.

I know the alternatives are catching on, and as I've aged I use them more and more, but running should never go out of style. Strengthening your legs that way just works, and always has.
Guys like Fitz, Jeffries and Dempsey used to do what today would be called intervals, or at the very least waht the Finns used to call "fartlek", mixing jogging with sprinting and even walking. Roadwork mixed with hill repeats or stair running (which are essentially interval running) is unbeatable.

As an increasingly feeble ex-jock, hill repeats and roadwork are the last activities that keepsfrom falling entirely into the abyss of old age. One of these days I'm going to have a ****ing heart attack at the top of the stairs I run...
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:48 PM   #115
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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I agree in terms of achievements & longevity. Certainly at least in P4P terms. But what's that huge Russian that beat him and bobsleds now? I know some consider him the best. I'm not familiar enough with the sport to really argue one way or another. I know John has the greatest achievements but never toppled this opponent.
I believe John only faced that guy once, and John had hurt his arm earlier that day, so he wasn't 100%, even in his past prime form.

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Guys like Fitz, Jeffries and Dempsey used to do what today would be called intervals, or at the very least waht the Finns used to call "fartlek", mixing jogging with sprinting and even walking. Roadwork mixed with hill repeats or stair running (which are essentially interval running) is unbeatable.

As an increasingly feeble ex-jock, hill repeats and roadwork are the last activities that keepsfrom falling entirely into the abyss of old age. One of these days I'm going to have a ****ing heart attack at the top of the stairs I run...
"fartlek" sounds like something that would happen in a bathroom, not a workout.

A lot of the older guys did the stuff they do now (minus the weights) just without the fancy names. As has been mentioned, several mixed in sprinting/walking with their roadwork. It's nothing new and has been used for over 100 years.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:57 PM   #116
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Guys like Fitz, Jeffries and Dempsey used to do what today would be called intervals, or at the very least waht the Finns used to call "fartlek", mixing jogging with sprinting and even walking. Roadwork mixed with hill repeats or stair running (which are essentially interval running) is unbeatable.

As an increasingly feeble ex-jock, hill repeats and roadwork are the last activities that keepsfrom falling entirely into the abyss of old age. One of these days I'm going to have a ****ing heart attack at the top of the stairs I run...

that is true
alot of the guys before the mid 1930's
had interesting training methods
intervals, they wrestled as well

its after that closed minded "old school" training methods set in
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:06 PM   #117
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Because they LIVED boxing, and like I said would only do what was necessary for a boxer. Why would a golfer need to improve his 100 meter sprint when it doesn't equate to anything useful in his field. Majority of boxers back then also had a 9-5 there was no time for something like lifting weights when it wouldn't help them in any way.

I don't understand how running would make one weaker, particularly when conditioning is of the up most importance in boxing especially back then when 15 rounders were a common thing.

Also I've never heard of any boxer having ruined his career due to running, saying the old timers were dumb for running because they could ruin their career due to knee and ankle injuries is like saying the old timers were stupid for hitting a heavy bag because it damages your hands, wrist and elbow joints.

PS. You seemed to have a go at another poster on here because you claimed he had never been to a boxing gym yet if you actually had been you'd know any boxing coach would tell you that running is very important while lifting weights is not.

dude did you actually say weight lifting does not equate to anything useful in boxing, please tell me your smarter then that


i know a person who ruined his career by running, he had 135 amatuer fights
and had to retire because massive knee problems, caused by running


and your line about me telling that to another poster,
yes i did actually,

and i have boxed for about 10 years and have met many people coaches
and while some were knowledgeable about fitness
others were some of the most ignorant and closed minded people i ever seen
and tried to sound like experts
while giving statements like "running makes you muscular not weights" lol


i have done other combat sports like bjj,muay thai and wrestling
and while some do weights there and some dont
this kind of know it all ignorance about fitness-weight training
is by far at its highest around older boxers

its like as soon as they see a dumbbell
they must get inscure, defensive and ready to spill hatred
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:08 PM   #118
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Weights are useless. Completely useless!

The only training needed is sparring. And some speed bag sessions to increase maximum shoulder and grip strength.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:48 PM   #119
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Guys like Fitz, Jeffries and Dempsey used to do what today would be called intervals, or at the very least waht the Finns used to call "fartlek", mixing jogging with sprinting and even walking. Roadwork mixed with hill repeats or stair running (which are essentially interval running) is unbeatable.

As an increasingly feeble ex-jock, hill repeats and roadwork are the last activities that keepsfrom falling entirely into the abyss of old age. One of these days I'm going to have a ****ing heart attack at the top of the stairs I run...
At my best, I'd do something similar for about 10 miles in the morning. Then, after my morning workout, I'd do some swimming, and then try to throw a lot of punches in the evening workout.

Do it for 6 weeks, and I never felt tired in a fight. I can attest to the pain and the discipline that takes, though, and as I got older, it's the running that I abandoned, and I replaced it with more "sprints" and swimming and weightlifting.

I got bigger, and my stamina tanked. I do NOT think that is a coincidence.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:10 PM   #120
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

I think George Foreman has bad knees now, as I've seen some videos of him recently that show him sort of hobbling around and moving sort of stiffly. He did a lot of running during his comeback, which at his weight, may not have been the best for his knees. But he did win the title back, so there you go!
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