Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

[Manassa]

Weights are useless. Completely useless!

The only training needed is sparring. And some speed bag sessions to increase maximum shoulder and grip strength.

[MagnaNasakki]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Guys like Fitz, Jeffries and Dempsey used to do what today would be called intervals, or at the very least waht the Finns used to call "fartlek", mixing jogging with sprinting and even walking. Roadwork mixed with hill repeats or stair running (which are essentially interval running) is unbeatable.

As an increasingly feeble ex-jock, hill repeats and roadwork are the last activities that keepsfrom falling entirely into the abyss of old age. One of these days I'm going to have a fucking heart attack at the top of the stairs I run...

At my best, I'd do something similar for about 10 miles in the morning. Then, after my morning workout, I'd do some swimming, and then try to throw a lot of punches in the evening workout.

Do it for 6 weeks, and I never felt tired in a fight. I can attest to the pain and the discipline that takes, though, and as I got older, it's the running that I abandoned, and I replaced it with more "sprints" and swimming and weightlifting.

I got bigger, and my stamina tanked. I do NOT think that is a coincidence.

[AnthonyJ74]

I think George Foreman has bad knees now, as I've seen some videos of him recently that show him sort of hobbling around and moving sort of stiffly. He did a lot of running during his comeback, which at his weight, may not have been the best for his knees. But he did win the title back, so there you go!

[AnthonyJ74]

Originally Posted by Bill1234

Yeah, Foreman is the only fighter that I've never, not even once, seen outmuscled by anyone.

Would you say that he was physically stronger than Lewis and Wlad, who are also known to be very, very strong?



Well, history shows that the fighters who ran and didn't lift weights did much better than the fighters who lifted weights and didn't put in their road work.

Lifting a ton of weights and becoming big and strong doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be punching harder or knocking people out quicker, it just means you're putting on weight and muscle that most likely isn't needed.

As with everything, different forms of training need to be done in moderation.

During Foreman's comeback, Lou Savarese was one of the few fighters who actually stood right with Foreman and punched. Foreman wasn't able to shove Savarese around like a lot of guys; actually, Axel Schultz showed surprising strength against Big George as well.

[Bill1234]

Originally Posted by AnthonyJ74

I think George Foreman has bad knees now, as I've seen some videos of him recently that show him sort of hobbling around and moving sort of stiffly. He did a lot of running during his comeback, which at his weight, may not have been the best for his knees. But he did win the title back, so there you go!

He's also in his mid 60s, so he's not going to be walking around like he used to. I still wouldn't want to fight him, he's probably still stronger than 90% of the people out there and I'm sure he still hits plenty hard.

Originally Posted by AnthonyJ74

During Foreman's comeback, Lou Savarese was one of the few fighters who actually stood right with Foreman and punched. Foreman wasn't able to shove Savarese around like a lot of guys; actually, Axel Schultz showed surprising strength against Big George as well.

From what I remember, George was still the man moving forward pretty much the entire fight and still pushed Savarese back.

[Rex Tickard]

I've always been impressed with how ripped Willie Ritchie looked here (watch the first minute):



That's purely from traditional training methods - no weight-lifting or roids.

That's also a great fight BTW, for anyone who hasn't seen it (vs. Mexican Joe Rivers).

[MagnaNasakki]

Originally Posted by Bill1234

He's also in his mid 60s, so he's not going to be walking around like he used to. I still wouldn't want to fight him, he's probably still stronger than 90% of the people out there and I'm sure he still hits plenty hard.



From what I remember, George was still the man moving forward pretty much the entire fight and still pushed Savarese back.

George is literally like a tank. You don't muscle George. Too much size, girth, and gorilla strength. It isn't just, like, strong arms, legs, whatever...He's blessed with straight animal strength in every fiber of his body. Carrying 700 pounds of elk on his back and shit like it's nothing.

His defense is also underrated. Shots bounced off him funny. I liken it to a boulder in a river. He gets plenty wet, but it takes millenia to punch a hole in him. It just slides off.

It's frustrating as hell, actually. You fire combinations, you stick, and NOTHING is pressing. Nothing sticks. Nothing feels like it's landing right. It's HARD to stand your ground when your getting hit with shots so stiff as to feel like spears and telephone poles, cant make anything PLANT on the guy, and, to top it off, he's got ox genes or something. Unbelievable. It's just not gonna happen. Only guy to ever outmuscle me 100% in there.

Lennox is a beast too, but it was the combination of things with George. It's not JUST strength, it's the combination of brute power, juggernaught defense, mindless tanklike aggression, and jabs and rights so stiff, strong, and heavy that the can knock you OFF your base.

[highguard]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

George is literally like a tank. You don't muscle George. Too much size, girth, and gorilla strength. It isn't just, like, strong arms, legs, whatever...He's blessed with straight animal strength in every fiber of his body. Carrying 700 pounds of elk on his back and shit like it's nothing.

His defense is also underrated. Shots bounced off him funny. I liken it to a boulder in a river. He gets plenty wet, but it takes millenia to punch a hole in him. It just slides off.

It's frustrating as hell, actually. You fire combinations, you stick, and NOTHING is pressing. Nothing sticks. Nothing feels like it's landing right. It's HARD to stand your ground when your getting hit with shots so stiff as to feel like spears and telephone poles, cant make anything PLANT on the guy, and, to top it off, he's got ox genes or something. Unbelievable. It's just not gonna happen. Only guy to ever outmuscle me 100% in there.

Lennox is a beast too, but it was the combination of things with George. It's not JUST strength, it's the combination of brute power, juggernaught defense, mindless tanklike aggression, and jabs and rights so stiff, strong, and heavy that the can knock you OFF your base.

i can see what you mean about foreman
but like i said in another thread

he only avoided pretty much all the big strong man in the late 80's and early 90's

ruddock
bruno
mccall
bowe
bonecrusher smith etc

instead he was fighting guys like qawi and looking unmovable
i think these guys would have given him a reason to move

thats why he fought NON of them

[highguard]

Originally Posted by Manassa

Weights are useless. Completely useless!

The only training needed is sparring. And some speed bag sessions to increase maximum shoulder and grip strength.

this kind of know it all ignorance about fitness-weight training
is by far at its highest around older boxers

its like as soon as they see a dumbbell
they must get inscure, defensive and ready to spill hatred


lol ever hear of wear and tear that the body
gets from sparring and bag work???

whats going to repair the body
more bag work hahahaha

you wanta get strong shoulders
you work your Deltoids and your rotator cuffs

but this gym talk is probably alien to you

[MagnaNasakki]

Originally Posted by highguard

i can see what you mean about foreman
but like i said in another thread

he only avoided pretty much all the big strong man in the late 80's and early 90's

ruddock
bruno
mccall
bowe
bonecrusher smith etc

instead he was fighting guys like qawi and looking unmovable
i think these guys would have given him a reason to move

thats why he fought NON of them

Bowe and McCall would have been straight bullied. I had no trouble moving both backwards, George would have either had them on their bikes or circling him(Bowe would have beat him up inside, but would have done so going around him, not consistently backing him up.)


Bonecrusher, Bruno, and Ruddock, I have no idea. Razor didn't ever look too strong to me. Mainly a sharp, explosive puncher, generated a lot of power lunging, but he got straight abused in some of his higher level contests.

[highguard]

you fought bowe and mccall?

mccall ate flush shots from lennox lewis like nothing
and you think foreman would just bully him?

bowe, come on man
a prime bowe would eat old foreman


ruddock only got abused after tyson ruined him
not before

ps bowe made fun of foreman many times
mocking him etc
foreman never respounded

[MagnaNasakki]

Originally Posted by highguard

you fought bowe and mccall?

mccall ate flush shots from lennox lewis like nothing
and you think foreman would just bully him?

bowe, come on man
a prime bowe would eat old foreman


ruddock only got abused after tyson ruined him
not before

ps bowe made fun of foreman many times
mocking him etc
foreman never respounded

Worked with those two, never fought them. Experienced rounds with Riddick young, Ollie old.

Prime Bowe would have worked George, but not in a war. George wouldn't have made it a war, Riddick would have just stepped off and around. He'd have hit paydirt shifting to the right and popping up the uppercut. But he wouldn't have backed George up with any consistency. He didn't drive with his legs very well, first of all, and he'd have been outjabbed at a distance, which makes it hard to consistently control the center. He'd have won with his own spin on how Holyfield did.

George was much, much stronger than Oliver McCall- He'd have backed him up easily. It's not just about eating shots and smiling, which is pretty much all McCall could do against the absolute best in the division, it's about the shoving, the bumping, the pushing, the moving. George beats the tar out of Oliver in a war, and wins a decisive decision. Probably 8-4.

You go around George, not through him

[Unforgiven]

That's what would have made Tyson-Foreman an interesting fight.
Sure, Tyson might out-speed him and get him out of there Dempsey-Willard style ... but it would have to be quick and clean and perfect from Tyson, because if it drags on a few rounds and becomes more attrition-based, Tyson's going to have to show something different to what we had ever seen from him.
Maybe he'd have to show that from the opening bell. I'm talking about lateral footwork, backpedalling even. From Tyson.
Foreman was no joke.

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by highguard

i can see what you mean about foreman
but like i said in another thread

he only avoided pretty much all the big strong man in the late 80's and early 90's

ruddock
bruno
mccall
bowe
bonecrusher smith etc

instead he was fighting guys like qawi and looking unmovable
i think these guys would have given him a reason to move

thats why he fought NON of them

Bruno's probably the strongest one there, especially when he got to like 248 pounds ripped.
Bonecrusher too, but Smith was a 'brutal puncher' rather than an outright brute and a bully.
Foreman still probably stronger than them both, almost certainly, he was a freak in the strength department, even for his size.

Shannon Briggs, Alex Stewart and Lou Savarese were no slouches in terms of size and strength. All young men, big guys, none of them looked comfortable challenging Foreman's strength, although they all give him a good argument, mainly boxing on the retreat.

[Manassa]

Originally Posted by highguard

this kind of know it all ignorance about fitness-weight training
is by far at its highest around older boxers

its like as soon as they see a dumbbell
they must get inscure, defensive and ready to spill hatred


lol ever hear of wear and tear that the body
gets from sparring and bag work???

whats going to repair the body
more bag work hahahaha

you wanta get strong shoulders
you work your Deltoids and your rotator cuffs

but this gym talk is probably alien to you

You are idiot. You stupido. Ever hear of wear and tear from weight lifting? Much worse. It is one of the worst things to do because of repair chemicals it releases, too much leads to negative speed and stamina because the body is filled with harmful fluid. Speed bag and sparring doesn't cause this.