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Old 01-25-2013, 07:29 PM   #31
Primadonna Kool
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Default Re: How much do you think Adam Booth can improve Aydin and Lee's game?

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And here, PK, is where you make a complete **** of yourself. I actually said that Haye CAN throw the left hook. It's only back a page, I think.





Might want to get back on the medication, yeah? Your issue was with Mo, not me, you spastic.
I have been watching the TV, while doing work, aswell as responding to this thread....

I think i have got DrMO & your comments mixed up. I was just skimming the thread quickly, not bothered to look who actually made the posts.

I very rarely read the whole posts, and just read what i can be bothered reading.

Note: I am still going to knock you spark out, with a low guard. My issue is not with DrMO, my issue is still with you.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:30 PM   #32
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Default Re: How much do you think Adam Booth can improve Aydin and Lee's game?

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Originally Posted by Primadonna Kool View Post
Excuse me.

How do you post youtube links...?
BORKED

I post them with considerable ease (unlike you)

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Old 01-25-2013, 07:33 PM   #33
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Default Re: How much do you think Adam Booth can improve Aydin and Lee's game?

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Originally Posted by Primadonna Kool View Post
I have been watching the TV, while doing work, aswell as responding to this thread....

I think i have got DrMO & your comments mixed up. I was just skimming the thread quickly, not bothered to look who actually made the posts.

I very rarely read the whole posts, and just read what i can be bothered reading.

Note: I am still going to knock you spark out, with a low guard. My issue is not with DrMO, my issue is still with you.
So you're basically a complete ****wit who's incapable of checking who he's replying to, who also got proven utterly wrong? Good to know. Your delusional **** is as boring as always.

You couldn't knock me out if you tried. You know why? Because we're on the internet and that's the only place you've got any spine.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:37 PM   #34
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Default Re: How much do you think Adam Booth can improve Aydin and Lee's game?

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Originally Posted by Primadonna Kool View Post
I have been watching the TV, while doing work, aswell as responding to this thread....

I think i have got DrMO & your comments mixed up. I was just skimming the thread quickly, not bothered to look who actually made the posts.

I very rarely read the whole posts, and just read what i can be bothered reading.

Note: I am still going to knock you spark out, with a low guard. My issue is not with DrMO, my issue is still with you.
Sorry to bring him into another thread, but for some time I thought Craney was a PK alt, with posts like the one above, you can see why I came to this opinion I'm sure?

Both arrogant, deluded, ****S.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:37 PM   #35
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Default Re: How much do you think Adam Booth can improve Aydin and Lee's game?

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So you're basically a complete ****wit, who got proven utterly wrong? Good to know. Your delusional **** is as boring as always. You couldn't knock me out if you tried. You know why? Because we're on the internet and that's the only place you've got any spine.
I am not bothered if i have been proven wrong, i was half heartily involving myself in this thread, and it has been abit of a laugh.

I stated that if we where to ever meet inside a boxing ring, i would spark you out with a low guard.

I never said anything about the internet.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:38 PM   #36
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Default Re: How much do you think Adam Booth can improve Aydin and Lee's game?

I think fighters should start off by learning the fundamentals. If they turn out to be that gifted athletically, maybe they can use a low guard, if they can master that style. With a high guard, obviously you're better protected. Just because you have the gloves up doesn't mean you can't slip, lean back, use distance, bob and weave to avoid punches. You can still do all of that, but if the punches do land you've got some protection. In certain situations it's also better for countering. For example, after a bob and weave when you wanna throw a hook. The punches would have less distance to travel also.

With the low guard, the main disadvantage is obvious, but with good control of distance, good reflexes and upper body movement you can get away with it. Still, if you come across someone that's unpredictable, hard to read and fast, then what if your reflexes are not good enough to avoid the attacks? The punches obviously have a further distance to travel from a low guard position, but if you're faster than your opponent, again you can get away with it. There is another way of looking at it though. The advantage is you're not pulling back to generate power. For example, if you want to throw an uppercut. From a high guard you would have to pull back before throwing. Like loading up before firing. If the hands are low, you can just throw, without having to pull back to generate power. Punches would also be coming from below the opponents eye line and this could cause problems for him if he's not used to it. Sometimes during sparring I've had trouble with jabs when they have come from a low hands position. I think having the hands low may also tempt your opponent to commit more. They see an open target and load up, over commit, you make 'em miss and bang! Good for counter punching I think.

It has it's advantages but if I was a boxing coach I personally wouldn't let my fighters use this style until they had mastered the basics.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:41 PM   #37
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Default Re: How much do you think Adam Booth can improve Aydin and Lee's game?

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Sorry to bring him into another thread, but for some time I thought Craney was a PK alt, with posts like the one above, you can see why I came to this opinion I'm sure?

Both arrogant, deluded, ****S.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:56 PM   #38
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Default Re: How much do you think Adam Booth can improve Aydin and Lee's game?

I thought Adam Booth wanted to retire and get out of boxing when his current crop finish up. Now he's taking on more fighters?


I don't really know how to assess Booth, I think he ****ed up the tactics of the Wlad flight. I actually think he puts too much stock in tactics.

He is a confident S.O.B. all the same and it would be good if some of that rubbed off on Lee. I can see Lee taking a few beating without Stewart protecting him all the same.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:21 PM   #39
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Default Re: How much do you think Adam Booth can improve Aydin and Lee's game?

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Jim Watt always goes out of his way to stress the importance of a high held guard, skills do u reckon its an old skool vs new skool thing, high held vs low held, or is it just Jim Watt hates a low held guard and Booth loves it/isn't too concerned about it??
Sorry for late reply mate..

Basically the low held guard and looser held guards were used in the 30's 40's 50's etc (as well as the full guard). In this country and in Europe we're a tad more conservative and like to hold hands higher so Watt's bred into that line of thought. The coaching textbooks were more about higher hands being the way to go. You still see that in our fighters a lot today although you do get fighters now copying the shoulder roll etc. The coaching is a bit rigid and runs on the tried and trusted and that's what the full guard brings.

Booth likes to offer a little to get a lot. IE. Loose low held guard offers chances for the opponent who will lead off but also with the low held guard you can punch and create more angles and counter better. It's a risky game but Booth likes it and it's effective.

The higher held guard picks off a lot more punches and lessens risk and allows you to stand ground slightly more and even edge closer then low held guards. The jab can be set in motion, But then likes of Froch like the low held left because they can create more angle for the jabs.

Then he eats more right hands because it's a seem for it so both have there advantages and negatives like football a formation will have strengths yet have weaknesses but it's all about how you cover the weaknesses up. The lower held guard though is for more talented fighters who have a special quality and characther inside ring. I wouldn't ask someone who's not comfortable in own skin (in ring) to move from the hips and show me the shoulder and work them angles . You just got to know what your working with. I'd say coaching the full guard is more easier...

So it's not exactly a old school vs new school thing in world boxing terms but it's more British/European type old school coaching. Although there's obviously some American trainers who prefer higher held guards as well.

For me it's all about the fighters and there attributes and ring characther. In this country i've been to Am gyms and they do not like a low held guard i can only think because it's from pro game in there opinion and not the norm and comes across ****y.

People think having hands up means your safe, it doesn't. You can put the ear muffs on and still get KTFO.

Edit: I also feel a weakness with the full guard is fighters a lot nowadays don't parry and slip within it they just block and when you block a lot of fighters sometimes will hook and turn you with the hook now if you slipped it you could counter it etc.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:24 PM   #40
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Default Re: How much do you think Adam Booth can improve Aydin and Lee's game?

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Still, if you come across someone that's unpredictable, hard to read and fast, then what if your reflexes are not good enough to avoid the attacks?
I notice a lot of fighters using a low guard struggle with pressure fighters who throw lots of punches.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:27 PM   #41
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Default Re: How much do you think Adam Booth can improve Aydin and Lee's game?

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Generally, it's better to fight with a textbook guard, since it keeps your hands in position to jab and hook as a lead punch while minimising exposure to a counter. It also means your power hand is generally in position to get maximum leverage after throwing the lead.

That allows fighters with slower hands and reflexes to be more effective offensively and defensively.

Modern fighters, in my view at least, are all too busy emulating Roy Jones and Floyd Mayweather. But they're ignoring the fact that Jones was supernaturally fast and aware, and Mayweather is supremely well-schooled with foot, head and hand position - add in his physical gifts and it's near-impossible to emulate his approach.

There's nothing wrong with a low-hand stance if you've mastered its subtleties, but it's not something that seems very prevalent in UK gyms.

Booth uses it with his fighters to trick opponents into over-extending. They end up looking to land the lead had so much that they get out of position. For a fast, aware and mobile fighter like Haye, it was a good tactic. He could easily shift position and land a fast, hard counter. He's a gunslinger, basically.

With Groves it's less effective, so he relies more on his legs.

But regardless of how fighters implement it, it's naturally higher risk. For a technician like Watt was in his active years, he'll always criticise this - same as Manny Steward and Teddy Atlas picking on fighters who don't jab effectively.
Excellent ****ysis.

The Haye/Maccarinelli fight, a perfect example.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:38 PM   #42
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Default Re: How much do you think Adam Booth can improve Aydin and Lee's game?

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I notice a lot of fighters using a low guard struggle with pressure fighters who throw lots of punches.
it does seem to **** up their wiring sometimes. Like when a fighter throws a jab they can counter it, but when he's throwing combos it's like "the **** is this? i'm not programmed to handle this many punches"
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:29 AM   #43
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Default Re: How much do you think Adam Booth can improve Aydin and Lee's game?

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Originally Posted by SkillspayBills View Post
Sorry for late reply mate..

Basically the low held guard and looser held guards were used in the 30's 40's 50's etc (as well as the full guard). In this country and in Europe we're a tad more conservative and like to hold hands higher so Watt's bred into that line of thought. The coaching textbooks were more about higher hands being the way to go. You still see that in our fighters a lot today although you do get fighters now copying the shoulder roll etc. The coaching is a bit rigid and runs on the tried and trusted and that's what the full guard brings.

Booth likes to offer a little to get a lot. IE. Loose low held guard offers chances for the opponent who will lead off but also with the low held guard you can punch and create more angles and counter better. It's a risky game but Booth likes it and it's effective.

The higher held guard picks off a lot more punches and lessens risk and allows you to stand ground slightly more and even edge closer then low held guards. The jab can be set in motion, But then likes of Froch like the low held left because they can create more angle for the jabs.

Then he eats more right hands because it's a seem for it so both have there advantages and negatives like football a formation will have strengths yet have weaknesses but it's all about how you cover the weaknesses up. The lower held guard though is for more talented fighters who have a special quality and characther inside ring. I wouldn't ask someone who's not comfortable in own skin (in ring) to move from the hips and show me the shoulder and work them angles . You just got to know what your working with. I'd say coaching the full guard is more easier...

So it's not exactly a old school vs new school thing in world boxing terms but it's more British/European type old school coaching. Although there's obviously some American trainers who prefer higher held guards as well.

For me it's all about the fighters and there attributes and ring characther. In this country i've been to Am gyms and they do not like a low held guard i can only think because it's from pro game in there opinion and not the norm and comes across ****y.

People think having hands up means your safe, it doesn't. You can put the ear muffs on and still get KTFO.

Edit: I also feel a weakness with the full guard is fighters a lot nowadays don't parry and slip within it they just block and when you block a lot of fighters sometimes will hook and turn you with the hook now if you slipped it you could counter it etc.
Nice 1 mate, I was rewatching the Judah-Matthysse fight last night and was amazed that the knockdown in that fight came by Matthysse punching through Judahs glove. Shows what sort of power Matthysse has.

dftaylor made a great point describing Haye as a gunslinger, I guess you could say the same about Bute who shoots that booming left hand to the body from his hip.

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I notice a lot of fighters using a low guard struggle with pressure fighters who throw lots of punches.
Do you think this happened to Brook when he fought Carson Jones? It could be that his nose broke and his stamina wasn't there, but Brook was getting lit up by Jones in the second half of that fight.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:32 AM   #44
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Default Re: How much do you think Adam Booth can improve Aydin and Lee's game?

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Originally Posted by Primadonna Kool View Post
He will land his left.

Didn't he rock Valuev with a left hook..?

2min 40sec of this video, the combination David Haye throw's! ends in the left hook doing the damage.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Note: Thought you was Dftaylor, that's why i was abit agressive.
Fair point about the Valuev fight, but Haye didnt land a good left hook until the 12th round. After he broke his right hand in the 3rd/4th round Haye didnt have a great jab or a great left hook to rely on.

Haye has always been too focused on loading up on his right hand; his whole setup, from his stance to his footwork.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primadonna Kool View Post
I have been watching the TV, while doing work, aswell as responding to this thread....

I think i have got DrMO & your comments mixed up. I was just skimming the thread quickly, not bothered to look who actually made the posts.

I very rarely read the whole posts, and just read what i can be bothered reading.

Note: I am still going to knock you spark out, with a low guard. My issue is not with DrMO, my issue is still with you.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:43 AM   #45
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Default Re: How much do you think Adam Booth can improve Aydin and Lee's game?

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Do you think this happened to Brook when he fought Carson Jones? It could be that his nose broke and his stamina wasn't there, but Brook was getting lit up by Jones in the second half of that fight.
At risk of upsetting Mo and Miguel, yes, I do. Brook is, for me, the epitome of fighters who think they can use a low-hand guard because they have massive advantages at domestic level. Their speed and athleticism carry them through quite often.

Against Jones, Brook was facing a guy he couldn't put away, who was throwing lots of punches at him, and wasn't giving him the room he likes to operate in. A more fundamentally sound fighter, who can use different types of guard, would have brought his hands up and presented less of a target. Because Brook lacks that sort of schooling, he ended up getting hit too much when he got tired.

I use Floyd Mayweather Jr as an example a lot, because he s supremely adaptable. Look at the Judah fight:

BORKED

He starts off struggling with Judah's speed and his hands are out of position to respond either defensively or offensively. Then look at how he comes out in the 10th round - he's got his hands up to do two things: encourage Judah to target the body, which lets Floyd land his straight right, and to reduce the risk from Judah zipping punches in from odd angles.

BORKED

*Can someone tell me how to embed YT - I'm having a PK moment*

Last edited by dftaylor; 01-26-2013 at 09:09 AM.
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