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Old 01-25-2013, 05:53 PM   #256
TheSouthpaw
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Leonard put up a supreme effort, and won a close fight on a small majority of cards. Hagler made some mistakes, but did himself no dishonor in his loss, and even did enough to cast the result in doubt.

I feel that answers the original question: He wasn't robbed, the right man won to 51% of scorers, and if Hagler was robbed at all, he robbed himself.
Damn right he did.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:19 PM   #257
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Hagler was ****y. He went in there thinking he couldn't lose, probably spent the fight thinking "this guy's hitting me with cream-puff slaps ... oh look, he's running away again" expecting everyone on the other side of the ropes to share his contempt for Leonard's efforts.
He should have been fighting with the same urgency that he showed when Hearns had him cut.
When you look at the fight, after 12 rounds Leonard looks spent, Hagler looks quite fresh.
Hagler should have been bull charging him from the mid-rounds on, even if gets messy - but he was playing it cool, didn't want to be made to look awkward and silly, he was too ****y, thought he was the superior boxer.
I think he did enough to get the decision anway, but it was close.
Good points !!
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:45 PM   #258
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Hagler was ****y. He went in there thinking he couldn't lose, probably spent the fight thinking "this guy's hitting me with cream-puff slaps ... oh look, he's running away again" expecting everyone on the other side of the ropes to share his contempt for Leonard's efforts.
He should have been fighting with the same urgency that he showed when Hearns had him cut.
When you look at the fight, after 12 rounds Leonard looks spent, Hagler looks quite fresh.
Hagler should have been bull charging him from the mid-rounds on, even if gets messy - but he was playing it cool, didn't want to be made to look awkward and silly, he was too ****y, thought he was the superior boxer.
I think he did enough to get the decision anway, but it was close.
I can't disagree with this.

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He spent his whole career ****y!..
He was definitely confident in his abilities, but I'm not sure I'd have called him ****y until the Leonard fight.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:25 AM   #259
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Hagler was ****y. He went in there thinking he couldn't lose, probably spent the fight thinking "this guy's hitting me with cream-puff slaps ... oh look, he's running away again" expecting everyone on the other side of the ropes to share his contempt for Leonard's efforts.
He should have been fighting with the same urgency that he showed when Hearns had him cut.
When you look at the fight, after 12 rounds Leonard looks spent, Hagler looks quite fresh.
Hagler should have been bull charging him from the mid-rounds on, even if gets messy - but he was playing it cool, didn't want to be made to look awkward and silly, he was too ****y, thought he was the superior boxer.
I think he did enough to get the decision anway, but it was close.
It wasn't ****iness, he felt his honor had been slighted and he tried to BOX Leonard.

Leonard had won this shit years before the fight even began, when Hagler expressed his envy of his recognition, fame, stardom and veneration among the boxing community. Hagler was fixated on two things ... Sugar Ray Leonard and his desire to be approved and honored amongst the boxing community. He felt set aside in Leonard's shadow and was thirsty for that fight ever since and once this all became apparent to Leonard he pulled every trick imaginable in the book to set up the biggest con job I've ever seen in boxing.

He lured Hagler into BOXING him by questioning his boxing ability. That shit worked like a charm and Hagler proceeded to BOX that insidious bastard in a larger ring with larger gloves and at a weight where he had never fought at.

His years of butthurt were all exploited that night and he ended up failing. Leonard portrayed him as a crude brawler and that did it for Hagler. He wanted to beat Leonard at his own game and prove everyone wrong ... but the net result was a loss in a fight he should've won.

Leonard is the most sly, cunning, shrewd bastard I've ever seen in boxing. This mofo literally played three of the best fighters of the era in Duran, Hearns, and Hagler like puppets. He ensnared Duran in the second fight he had with him, beguiled Hearns into fighting him at a catchweight that drained Hearns to death, and he saved his biggest con job against Hagler where he played every note in the book.

People say Ali played tricks ... Leonard was the greatest trickster in boxing history. That ****er has you faggots fooled to this day that most of you still don't realize the shit that he pulled. I still remember the shit he said at his retirement event. Made Hagler look like a bitch lol. Floyd's cherrypicking and Pac's catchweights have nothing on that bastard.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:40 AM   #260
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

Sounds like sore loser talk, honestly.

I approved every contract I ever signed. They fought Ray, and couldn't get it done. Reflects on nobody but the two fighters in the ring. Fight to win. Take every advantage.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:42 AM   #261
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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It wasn't ****iness, he felt his honor had been slighted and he tried to BOX Leonard.

Leonard had won this shit years before the fight even began, when Hagler expressed his envy of his recognition, fame, stardom and veneration among the boxing community. Hagler was fixated on two things ... Sugar Ray Leonard and his desire to be approved and honored amongst the boxing community. He felt set aside in Leonard's shadow and was thirsty for that fight ever since and once this all became apparent to Leonard he pulled every trick imaginable in the book to set up the biggest con job I've ever seen in boxing.

He lured Hagler into BOXING him by questioning his boxing ability. That shit worked like a charm and Hagler proceeded to BOX that insidious bastard in a larger ring with larger gloves and at a weight where he had never fought at.

His years of butthurt were all exploited that night and he ended up failing. Leonard portrayed him as a crude brawler and that did it for Hagler. He wanted to beat Leonard at his own game and prove everyone wrong ... but the net result was a loss in a fight he should've won.

Leonard is the most sly, cunning, shrewd bastard I've ever seen in boxing. This mofo literally played three of the best fighters of the era in Duran, Hearns, and Hagler like puppets. He ensnared Duran in the second fight he had with him, beguiled Hearns into fighting him at a catchweight that killed Hearns to make, and he saved his biggest con job against Hagler where he played every note in the book.
Well, yeah, but it's all part of the game.

I say Hagler was ****y because he insisted on showing he could out-BOX the guy. He was ****y enough to believe others would agree with him and see things his way.
But 'out-box' is often a subjective thing, more often than 'out-fight', and certainly more subjective than 'knock out' which is clear-cut.

One of the judges seemed to be a founding member of the SRL Fan Club anyway, or bought off by persons unknown, so it was an even steeper uphill battle. And Hagler knew all this if he stopped to think rationally. He should have gone full-on-destroyer as if his life depended on it.

Of course, you are right, it was his pride and resentment that caused his outlook and strategy.

I thought he won by a point or two anyway, however many times I score it.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:43 AM   #262
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Sounds like sore loser talk, honestly.

I approved every contract I ever signed. They fought Ray, and couldn't get it done. Reflects on nobody but the two fighters in the ring. Fight to win. Take every advantage.
You were never fixated on someone like Hagler was to Leonard. He was obsessed with that man and would get on his knees and bark to fight him. He might as well have because Leonard treated him like that.

Its better to say that Hagler lost than Leonard won.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:46 AM   #263
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

I disagree. That's why we fight the fights.

Fans are too quick to take a fighters victory away from them. We earn it in the gym. Hagler fought dumb, Leonard fought smart. It was such a close, competitive fight that its mystique is enhanced. Leonard W12 Hagler. Case closed.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:47 AM   #264
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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You were never fixated on someone like Hagler was to Leonard. He was obsessed with that man and would get on his knees and bark to fight him. He might as well have because Leonard treated him like that.

Its better to say that Hagler lost than Leonard won.
And this isn't QUITE true, lol. Backfired on me about as bad as it did on Hagler.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:50 AM   #265
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Well, yeah, but it's all part of the game.

I say Hagler was ****y because he insisted on showing he could out-BOX the guy. He was ****y enough to believe others would agree with him and see things his way.
But 'out-box' is often a subjective thing, more often than 'out-fight', and certainly more subjective than 'knock out' which is clear-cut.

One of the judges seemed to be a founding member of the SRL Fan Club anyway, or bought off by persons unknown, so it was an even steeper uphill battle. And Hagler knew all this if he stopped to think rationally. He should have gone full-on-destroyer as if his life depended on it.

Of course, you are right, it was his pride and resentment that caused his outlook and strategy.

I thought he won by a point or two anyway, however many times I score it.
Leonard had this thing so structured that it was impossible for him to lose.

Literally the perfect plan.

Leonard is the ultimate conman and strategist. Floyd is the only one today who comes close to matching his wits but comes off as a douche.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:55 AM   #266
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Leonard had this thing so structured that it was impossible for him to lose.

Literally the perfect plan.

Leonard is the ultimate conman and strategist. Floyd is the only one today who comes close to matching his wits but comes off as a douche.
It's all part of the game. Sometimes, the smarter fighter wins. I just don't view "I fought dumber and signed a contract that wasn't advantageous to me" as a valid excuse. Frankly, it would hurt my pride as a fighter if I heard folks making that excuse for me.

Hagler wanted the fight, he took it, he signed on the dotted line, he fought it, he came up short. He OWNS that L. And it clearly hurts him and his fans a bit, which is, ultimately, another aspect of the game. I have a loss or three that still stick in my craw. I'd just never say I was "conned" out of it. Rubs me wrong.

I prefer to heap credit on the winner of an important fight than make excuses for the loser; Particularly an ATG who doesn't need those excuses made for him.
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:00 AM   #267
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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I disagree. That's why we fight the fights.

Fans are too quick to take a fighters victory away from them. We earn it in the gym. Hagler fought dumb, Leonard fought smart. It was such a close, competitive fight that its mystique is enhanced. Leonard W12 Hagler. Case closed.
I agree that Hagler fought dumb and Leonard fought smart. But I still think he did enough to win.
I have a little extra sympathy for Hagler in this case, because I believe a close loss for Leonard would have been a 'victory' anyway, but not so for Hagler.

In close fights, the judging system is harsh. That's compunded by the fact that one of the Leonard votes was way too wide. I mean, even in these times of the internet and all the partisan crack pots, 'fan boys' and 'haters', you wont find many defending a 118-110 score.

In close disputable fights I always feel a draw would be the fairest result.

But it's all part of the game. They both got well paid. No one died. Everyone knows Hagler was a great fighter. It is what it is.
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:11 AM   #268
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
It's all part of the game. Sometimes, the smarter fighter wins. I just don't view "I fought dumber and signed a contract that wasn't advantageous to me" as a valid excuse. Frankly, it would hurt my pride as a fighter if I heard folks making that excuse for me.

Hagler wanted the fight, he took it, he signed on the dotted line, he fought it, he came up short. He OWNS that L. And it clearly hurts him and his fans a bit, which is, ultimately, another aspect of the game. I have a loss or three that still stick in my craw. I'd just never say I was "conned" out of it. Rubs me wrong.

I prefer to heap credit on the winner of an important fight than make excuses for the loser; Particularly an ATG who doesn't need those excuses made for him.
I give Leonard full credit for out smarting him and I already said that I thought he won the fight ... But we all know it was Haglers fight to lose

Ali out smarted Foreman in a similar way ... and his ring smarts and intelligence is what put him at the top of the best division of heavyweights
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:14 AM   #269
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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I agree that Hagler fought dumb and Leonard fought smart. But I still think he did enough to win.
I have a little extra sympathy for Hagler in this case, because I believe a close loss for Leonard would have been a 'victory' anyway, but not so for Hagler.

In close fights, the judging system is harsh. That's compunded by the fact that one of the Leonard votes was way too wide. I mean, even in these times of the internet and all the partisan crack pots, 'fan boys' and 'haters', you wont find many defending a 118-110 score.

In close disputable fights I always feel a draw would be the fairest result.

But it's all part of the game. They both got well paid. No one died. Everyone knows Hagler was a great fighter. It is what it is.
How are you scoring this fight? I mean Hagler flushed all of the early rounds down the toilet
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:00 AM   #270
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

I think many people underestimate or mischaracterize the work Leonard did in this fight. They characterize the fight as simply "Hagler landing harder punches, while Leonard threw pity pat flurries," but I don't think it's as clear cut as that. I think there were times when Hagler's punches looked slow and sloppy, while Leonard actually landed the sharper punches (see round 6, for example). I think Leonard mixed in enough solid punches among his so-called "pity pats" to make Hagler respect him and not simply walk through him. He also did a great job of tying up or smothering Hagler, especially in the early rounds, and made him miss with a lot of punches.

Leonard largely outclassed Hagler over the first four rounds. After his ring-rusty body began to tire in the 5th, he used his guile and will to remain competitive even in the rounds he probably lost. Despite people's characterizations of Leonard as "running" and Hagler "chasing," there are times in that fight where Hagler actually looks like the more tentative and less hungry of the two.

IMO, this was a close fight that probably could've been scored either way. I think a close win for Leonard was fair and well deserved.
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