Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

[dyna]

Originally Posted by Manassa

You are idiot. You stupido. Ever hear of wear and tear from weight lifting? Much worse. It is one of the worst things to do because of repair chemicals it releases, too much leads to negative speed and stamina because the body is filled with harmful fluid. Speed bag and sparring doesn't cause this.

That's why plyometrics should be used instead of weights

[Absolutely!]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

George is literally like a tank. You don't muscle George. Too much size, girth, and gorilla strength. It isn't just, like, strong arms, legs, whatever...He's blessed with straight animal strength in every fiber of his body. Carrying 700 pounds of elk on his back and shit like it's nothing.

His defense is also underrated. Shots bounced off him funny. I liken it to a boulder in a river. He gets plenty wet, but it takes millenia to punch a hole in him. It just slides off.

It's frustrating as hell, actually. You fire combinations, you stick, and NOTHING is pressing. Nothing sticks. Nothing feels like it's landing right. It's HARD to stand your ground when your getting hit with shots so stiff as to feel like spears and telephone poles, cant make anything PLANT on the guy, and, to top it off, he's got ox genes or something. Unbelievable. It's just not gonna happen. Only guy to ever outmuscle me 100% in there.

Lennox is a beast too, but it was the combination of things with George. It's not JUST strength, it's the combination of brute power, juggernaught defense, mindless tanklike aggression, and jabs and rights so stiff, strong, and heavy that the can knock you OFF your base.

I always figured it would be very difficult to land on older Foreman clean. Nice to hear confirmation of that, though. That awkward arms out defence just seemed to stymie a lot of shots, or had them glancing off the top of his big chrome dome. Morrison was having a hell of a time landing clean on George. His lefts were just getting sapped before they landed, and George's constant forward pressure was forcing Tommy on the backfoot and unable to get full torque on them as well. Looked like a nightmare to fight if you were a smaller fighter.

I wonder how it would work against a much taller fighter though. I can imagine someone like Vitali being able to land a lot more solidly on George than a little tank like Tua or Tyson ever could due to the angle at which he'd be punching.

[dyna]

Originally Posted by Absolutely!

I always figured it would be very difficult to land on older Foreman clean. Nice to hear confirmation of that, though. That awkward arms out defence just seemed to stymie a lot of shots, or had them glancing off the top of his big chrome dome. Morrison was having a hell of a time landing clean on George. His lefts were just getting sapped before they landed, and George's constant forward pressure was forcing Tommy on the backfoot and unable to get full torque on them as well. Looked like a nightmare to fight if you were a smaller fighter.

I wonder how it would work against a much taller fighter though. I can imagine someone like Vitali being able to land a lot more solidly on George than a little tank like Tua or Tyson ever could due to the angle at which he'd be punching.

The cross armed defence used by Foreman (Also Archie Moore) is extremely efficient in stopping hooks and straights but it is a little bit on the weak side against uppercuts.
But Foreman was such a strong man those uppercuts mostly didn't bother him in any significant way.
And some fighters don't throw uppercuts anyway

[Absolutely!]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

Rahman's certainly got the build of a man with freakish strength. But he didn't seem to apply it at the highest level as Foreman did. I mean, Holyfield just walked straight in to Rahman. Maybe Rahman's no stronger than Holyfield, (in the ring, who knows about the bench). But then Evander's a beast too.

Having great static strength and having great dynamic strength aren't that related. One's mostly a matter of raw power, the other's a matter of technique, build, power, endurance, bloody mindedness etc.

Rahman no doubt had tons of the former, which contributed to his huge one punch power if he could wind up and land it flush, but lacked in so many other respects that he could not routinely make that power count in a dynamic environment.

Would be interesting to see how high he registered on a punchometer, though, compared to other traditionally huge punchers. I think he'd do rather respectably.

[Absolutely!]

Originally Posted by dyna

The cross armed defence used by Foreman (Also Archie Moore) is extremely efficient in stopping hooks and straights but it is a little bit on the weak side against uppercuts.
But Foreman was such a strong man those uppercuts mostly didn't bother him in any significant way.
And some fighters don't throw uppercuts anyway

It wasn't just a regular cross armed defence though, not like, say, the way Norton applied it. Foreman just seemed to stick his arms out there and stop the momentum of the punch dead in its tracks. It wasn't a tight guard like Moore and Norton applied.

I can imagine it being like trying to punch someone through a padded cage.

[highguard]

Originally Posted by Manassa

You are idiot. You stupido. Ever hear of wear and tear from weight lifting? Much worse. It is one of the worst things to do because of repair chemicals it releases, too much leads to negative speed and stamina because the body is filled with harmful fluid. Speed bag and sparring doesn't cause this.

your ****ing retarded,

go to a gym and see what happens there,


like i already too much of anything is harmful
look at ****ing but you will have the brain power
to question that


bottom is
i actually train and from i can see you
clearly you have no idea what that is


**** your stupid,

but here is a study to educate you on weights helping injuries

[url]***********.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/10/971022155847.htm[/url]

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by highguard

your ****ing retarded,

go to a gym and see what happens there,


like i already too much of anything is harmful
look at ****ing but you will have the brain power
to question that


bottom is
i actually train and from i can see you
clearly you have no idea what that is


**** your stupid,

but here is a study to educate you on weights helping injuries

[url]***********.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/10/971022155847.htm[/url]

[url]***********.youtube.com/watch?v=I5Zk2vUmjpk[/url]

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by highguard

your ****ing retarded,

go to a gym and see what happens there,


like i already too much of anything is harmful
look at ****ing but you will have the brain power
to question that


bottom is
i actually train and from i can see you
clearly you have no idea what that is


**** your stupid,

but here is a study to educate you on weights helping injuries

[url]***********.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/10/971022155847.htm[/url]

[highguard]

Originally Posted by dyna

That's why plyometrics should be used instead of weights

[url]***********.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/10/971022155847.htm[/url]


there is a reason, they use weights not plyometrics
for injuries etc

[Absolutely!]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

Oh yeah, fighters have always done 'interval' work, or wind sprints, hill running etc. Training hard and for fitness is actually quite straight-forward and athletes figured most of it out decades ago, perhaps millennia ago ! Trial and error, common sense and instinct.

I think in 'the information age' and with everything now a body of science, some people anyone who lived 50 years ago couldn't have had a clue about anything.
People might use words like 'plyometrics' and shit now, doesn't mean the method didn't exist a long time before the word was coined and some geeks wrote a book on it.

I used to be a bit of a modern science and nutrition zealot till I realised that a) most of this stuff's been around for yonks, and b) most modern fighters don't have the discipline or professionalism to actually benefit from it, certainly not in the heavyweight division. While I do still hold to the notion that there have been improvements in certain aspects of training and nutrition, the idea that old school fighters had no idea what they were doing just smacks of ignorance. There are very few other sports where there's such an incentive to get it right, and whilst boxing hasn't been immune to tradition and conservative mindedness, if you're doing something that improves your chances in the ring then it's probably going to catch on in a hurry.

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by dyna

Because Evander is a beast

That's what I said.

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by Absolutely!

I used to be a bit of a modern science and nutrition zealot till I realised that a) most of this stuff's been around for yonks, and b) most modern fighters don't have the discipline or professionalism to actually benefit from it, certainly not in the heavyweight division. While I do still hold to the notion that there have been improvements in certain aspects of training and nutrition, the idea that old school fighters had no idea what they were doing just smacks of ignorance. There are very few other sports where there's such an incentive to get it right, and whilst boxing hasn't been immune to tradition and conservative mindedness, if you're doing something that improves your chances in the ring then it's probably going to catch on in a hurry.

Exactly.

[Manassa]

Originally Posted by highguard

your ****ing retarded,

go to a gym and see what happens there,


like i already too much of anything is harmful
look at ****ing but you will have the brain power
to question that


bottom is
i actually train and from i can see you
clearly you have no idea what that is


**** your stupid,

but here is a study to educate you on weights helping injuries

[url]***********.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/10/971022155847.htm[/url]

**** your science you **** stupid, ponce man, look - I train every day non-stop unlike you, with your rest periods and other *****, man, my grip strength is obscene just from speed bag. Sparring rounds off my training nicely, gives excellent cardio and leg endurance. NOTHING ELSE IS NEEDED YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME!!! Funny thing is, you actually buy that crap you've been reading, sucker.

[john garfield]

Originally Posted by Manassa

**** your science you **** stupid, ponce man, look - I train every day non-stop unlike you, with your rest periods and other *****, man, my grip strength is obscene just from speed bag. Sparring rounds off my training nicely, gives excellent cardio and leg endurance. NOTHING ELSE IS NEEDED YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME!!! Funny thing is, you actually buy that crap you've been reading, sucker.

Speaking to few -- 'n some of the best old school trainers -- they confided, they humored fighters letting them do that BS, if it built their confidence. Your simple regime made a lot of ATGs.

[Unforgiven]

One old-time trainer told me all you need to develop a world class fighter is that ring over there and the heavy bag.